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**Estoril** · 10-11-2021, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Feffman View Post

Sergmann, I feel your pain. I've been there. Good call.

Several of us switched to MSI Racing studs: http://www.msirp.com/wheel-studs-index#bmw

When I swapped to Bimmerworld's racing control arms and the roll center correction kit for the front end, I installed the Core4 Motorsports front hubs with pressed in studs (they use MSI Racing studs) and eventually will do the rear hubs when needed. They offer some tech tips as well: https://www.core4motorsports.com/tech

https://www.core4motorsports.com/pro...hub-conversion

Sadly, my left rear stud failure (not MSI Racing studs) at Mid-Ohio is in Core4's web site in their "Gallery of Broken Studs". The photographer at the event caught the entire failure on camera with a series of photos.

Feff

Unfortunately, no-one has had MSI 12x1.5 85.5mm studs in stock for more than 6 months. I've been trying to replace mine on schedule.

**Sergmann** · 10-11-2021, 01:20 PM

Track workers found 3 of the 5. The short one is the one I imagine broke first.

Attached Files

**repoman89** · 10-12-2021, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Sergmann View Post

I will be looking into the press in options as I rebuild the car. These were fcp studs btw but I’m not sure that matters.

as for wheel bolts, I’ve seen them fail too. A good friend still runs them on his e36 track car and broke one earlier this year. He replaced all 20 with new OEM stuff and has broken two since.

im not sure what is happening as of late with the studs but I have seen more failures in the past two years than the previous 10!!

The motorsport hardware ones they sell, specifically? Scary and good reminder, thanks for sharing. Guess I'll use the fcp warranty for once and replace them every spring.

**Sergmann** · 10-12-2021, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Feffman View Post

Sergmann, I feel your pain. I've been there. Good call.

Several of us switched to MSI Racing studs: http://www.msirp.com/wheel-studs-index#bmw

When I swapped to Bimmerworld's racing control arms and the roll center correction kit for the front end, I installed the Core4 Motorsports front hubs with pressed in studs (they use MSI Racing studs) and eventually will do the rear hubs when needed. They offer some tech tips as well: https://www.core4motorsports.com/tech

BMW Wheel Stud Conversion Kit - Hubs | Core4 Motorsports

https://www.core4motorsports.com/product-page/core4-e46-m3-ulimtate-press-in-stud-hub-conversion

***Check out our new broken stud gallery here*****LUG NUTS ARE NOT INCLUDED** MSI is a leading wheel stud supplier for IMSA, SRO (Pirelli World Challenge), and NASCAR teams. Two different lengths available: up to 12mm wheel spacer, and up to 20mm spacer. Both lengths come with easy start bullet noses (see pictures in gallery). These are the most robustly designed 12mm wheel stud available on the market with 'CT10' dry film lubricant coating to achieve more tension with less torque and to prevent galling (thread damage)*** "WHAT DO I GET?"Your choice of a complete set, fronts only, or rears only of new O.E. supplier FAG brand BMW front and BMW Genuine OEM rear hubs professionally modified on a CNC machine to allow the use of super high-strength (beyond grade 12.9, 185,000+ psi ultimate tensile strength) press-in ARP or proprietary Core4/MSI wheel studs. Hubs come pre-installed with ARP or MSI studs. Don't want to spend money on brand new hubs? SEND YOUR OWN WHEEL HUBS IN TO HAVE STUDS INSTALLED! These aren't just simply drilled. They are machined exactly the same as OEM hubs that come from the factory with press-in studs. The holes are precision machined and inspected, and the backside of the hubs are machined flat to allow the head of the studs to sit correctly without any stress risers from poor perpendicularity with the hub face. It is perfect timing to simply install these on your vehicle during a bearing service and worry much less about your studs breaking whether for a dual duty track car or full blown race car. Hubs come with studs long enough to use a 12mm wheel spacer OR you can opt for a longer stud which will allow the use of a wheel spacer up to 20mm thick. "WHO IS THIS MEANT FOR?"Anyone who wants a endurance racing tested, reliable method of fastening wheels to their car, and keeping them there....literally. Extra peace of mind, less money spent on replacing studs out of paranoia, and a proven track record applies to every BMW enthusiast, whether drifting, tracking, or full blown racing. "WHY WOULD I WANT PRESS-IN STUDS ON MY BMW ANYWAY?"This is a solution to a documented problem in a series that our race team competes in called American Endurance Racing ("AER" www.americanenduranceracing.com), where there's upwards of 25 hours of racing per weekend. That's approximately 15-20 HPDE/track-day's worth of track time in a span of three days. Several teams who have had consistent issues and multiple instances with breaking thread-in studs, and sometimes losing wheels on track (see videos in gallery), have had zero issues to date since switching over to press-in style studs. This is based on the AER database which has cars with multiple 1000's of laps in the last 2-3 years. The only cars that have had failures (and lost wheels) are BMW cars with 12mm size thread-in studs. There hasn't been a single report of a press-in stud failure from cars that come that way from the factory (Mustang, Corvette, Nissan, Honda, etc.) or BMW's that have already been modified to this style utilizing ARP press-in studs that race in AER. Because of the frequency of thread-in stud failures, many BMW owners have been led to believe that it is necessary to service wheel studs at an abnormal rate. Some recommendations as low as 10 hours of track time. STUDS SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE SERVICED BEFORE WHEEL BEARINGS ON A TRACK CAR . The only instance where this may be the case is when the studs are subjected to repeated time sensitive pit-stops with heavy impact equipment. Simple as that. A dual duty track/street car should be able to run the same high quality, high strength ARP or MSI wheel studs for years without worry or up until wheel bearings are serviced. M12 sized fasteners in a thread-in configuration are marginal for the application and more susceptible to failure due to large stress risers at the thread root and shoulder where they install into the hub. Press-in ARP and MSI studs have large un-threaded shanks that have 44% larger cross-sectional area than thread-in studs (more area = more strength!) coming out of the hub from the backside making them much more robust and fatigue resistant without stress concentrations at points of peak stress. Their tolerance to bending and shear loading from race cars generating tons of grip and instances beyond control like loss of pre-load (anything from installation error to plastic deformation of the aluminum wheel at the lug nut interface), debris caught in between wheel and hub, poorly constructed or out of tolerance wheels, is much better than a thread-in. "BUT, THREAD-IN STUDS ARE EASY TO CHANGE IF THEY BREAK..."The only people who make this argument are BMW people who run 12mm thread-in studs. Why? Because they are the only people who break studs at an abnormal rate!Press-in studs CAN easily be serviced on the front of E36 M3/E46 and front and rear on E36 non-M. The front of the car requires the removal of the dust-shield and the rear of the car the e-brake must be removed and the back plate notched a bit for clearance. Remember, you will most likely need to change your wheel bearings before the need to change studs. "WHAT IF I NEED TO CHANGE BEARINGS?"We offer individual front hub assemblies with just machining done or pre-installed with studs, whether for regular maintenance, spares, or precautionary measures. "I JUST ORDERED WHEEL HUBS AND NOW IT'S TOO LATE TO GET THIS DONE!..."STOP RIGHT THERE! Contact us and we can have you ship us your hubs to get the machining service done and studs installed. For those of you with BMW models that have costly rear hubs (i.e.-Z3), we will offer to do the service on used hubs granted they are clean condition.

Sadly, my left rear stud failure (not MSI Racing studs) at Mid-Ohio is in Core4's web site in their "Gallery of Broken Studs". The photographer at the event caught the entire failure on camera with a series of photos.

Feff

Had a pretty good conversation with Tom at Core 4 today. He is very enthusiastic about wheel studs and is a wealth of knowledge on the topic. I am going to go with their 12mm press in studs on all 4 corners. They have a new proprietary lug nut coming out shortly that closely mimics the Porsche wheel bolt. The idea is to reduce galling that occurs with a standard lug nut and aluminum wheels. Im going to get those as well. Hopefully this is a real solution to this issue and I can drive again without breaking studs at random on my mind....

**bigjae46** · 10-12-2021, 05:27 PM

First...I recommend NEVER running a spacer less than 12mm on a BMW. A 5mm spacer will cause issues depending on the depth of the chamfer on the back of the wheel bore. There might be only a small portion of the hub lip touching the wheel bore. Although not standard, the wheel hub lip is typically 10mm high. So a spacer needs to be at least 12mm to properly mate with the wheel hub.

Clean wheel hub, lip and back of wheel - make sure there is no corrosion, dirt or debris.
Spin lug nuts on with a smaller battery impact, gets it to about 60 ft/lbs
Torque with a digital torque wrench to 85 ft/lb and stay within +/- 1 ft/lb
Drive
Check torque at -5 lb from spec (80ft/lb)

I think people over think this. I witness people putting their full weight into pulling the torque wrench. Doesn't take much to go from 85 ft/lb to 110 ft/lb - probably about 1/8 of a turn. If you are using a long 1/2" torque wrench, doesn't take much effort either. I see people re-torqueing their wheels mid-day. I've seen shop install studs with a spacer and not have full thread engagement - then told her to torque them to 120 ft/lbs.

I've ran studs for 14 years on the track on 3 different cars. Never had one break at the track.

Keep it simple. Clean, torque, roll, recheck, leave it the hell alone. No spacers!

**elbert** · 10-13-2021, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Sergmann View Post

Had a pretty good conversation with Tom at Core 4 today. He is very enthusiastic about wheel studs and is a wealth of knowledge on the topic. I am going to go with their 12mm press in studs on all 4 corners. They have a new proprietary lug nut coming out shortly that closely mimics the Porsche wheel bolt. The idea is to reduce galling that occurs with a standard lug nut and aluminum wheels. Im going to get those as well. Hopefully this is a real solution to this issue and I can drive again without breaking studs at random on my mind....

Good to know about the lug nuts. I'll get a set when they're available. It's been kind of annoying to lube the lug nut seats.
I've been running the Core 4 studs (ARP, MSI was out of stock at the time) this season and have been happy with them. Of course, only time will tell...

**CrookedCommie** · 10-13-2021, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by elbert View Post

Good to know about the lug nuts. I'll get a set when they're available. It's been kind of annoying to lube the lug nut seats.
I've been running the Core 4 studs (ARP, MSI was out of stock at the time) this season and have been happy with them. Of course, only time will tell...

Agreed, but firing up the MAPP torch in the paddock to extract a snapped stud is a bit more annoying

Will likely go with Core4 next time wheel bearings are due.

**elbert** · 07-14-2022, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Sergmann View Post

They have a new proprietary lug nut coming out shortly that closely mimics the Porsche wheel bolt. The idea is to reduce galling that occurs with a standard lug nut and aluminum wheels. Im going to get those as well. Hopefully this is a real solution to this issue and I can drive again without breaking studs at random on my mind....

Got an email this morning -- the floating collar lug nuts ("FLug" as they call them) are now available. $9.50 each, "while supplies last"

(I bought 22

)

**CrookedCommie** · 07-14-2022, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by elbert View Post

Got an email this morning -- the floating collar lug nuts ("FLug" as they call them) are now available. $9.50 each, "while supplies last"

(I bought 22

)

Got these along with the Core4 pressed in studs. Everything looks really solid. Looking forward to not having to put anti-seize on the lug nuts, and also not losing any more wheels

once is enough.

**Sergmann** · 07-14-2022, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by elbert View Post

Got an email this morning -- the floating collar lug nuts ("FLug" as they call them) are now available. $9.50 each, "while supplies last"

(I bought 22

)

I have been running these all season. Nice lugs for sure and good piece of mind. $220 for lug nuts isn't cheap but racecar......

**lvm3sm46** · 07-17-2022, 04:50 PM

Whats wrong with these?

404 Not Found

https://www.systemmotorsports.com/collections/lugnuts-m12x1-5/products/copy-of-project-kics-r40-iconix-lug-nuts-locks-black-caps-2

System Motorsports is the industry-leading direct source for quality aftermarket automotive performance parts and technical support. We specialize in large-volume wholesale + retail programs for consumers and businesses alike, stocking product in-house + servicing clients all across the US + International territories.

**elbert** · 07-18-2022, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by lvm3sm46 View Post

Whats wrong with these?
https://www.systemmotorsports.com/co...s-black-caps-2

The Core4 lugs are Grade 12.9 (minimum Brinell hardness of 353), which is needed when used with their stud kit.
The R26 and R40 lugs are supposedly made with SM435 CrMo alloy (hardness of 187-229), which means they aren't even Grade 10.9 (minimum hardness 295).

The cost is the same too, not to mention the R40 Iconix you tried to link has locking lugs, which aren't wanted for a track car.

**lvm3sm46** · 07-18-2022, 05:21 AM

elbert thanks you for explaining the hardness, I was curious about that but couldn't find which was harder and I agree I definitely dont want a locking lug nut.

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PSA replace you wheel studs yearly

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