Ever reused brace plate bolts?

[Cubieman]

I think I have had my brace plate off 4-5 times now and reused the 12 bolts each time which is likely a big no-no as I know they are torque to yield bolts. Just wondered how often others have re-used these and what the repercussions may be after repeated reuse.

It took me some time to get wise to FCP for consumable items like this and finally purchased 12 new bolts but I feel like waiting to use them until I take the plate off the next time unless it's really going to make a negative impact on my alignment and/or cause harm to other areas then I will go put the new bolts in asap.

I think I know what the appropriate thing to do would be but was just curious as I know some of you guys reuse these as well.

I have been torquing to 46ft lb as opposed the factory 44ft lb after each re-use of these bolts.

[heinzboehmer]

Few things.

Torque to yield bolts plastically deform when torqued, so the consequences of reusing them is that they no longer have the same mechanical properties as they did when they were manufactured. In practical terms, that means they're over stretched and could break when re-torquing or when in use. However, I reused them a bunch when I had just bought the car and never had issues. I've since discovered FCP and now won't reuse them unless I know I'll be taking the plate off in the near future (think 2-3 weeks).

FCP is the way to go. They truly ask zero questions with lifetime warranty returns, so I would personally just swap them out now and then buy some more whenever you take the plate off next. Taking the plate off won't affect your alignment.

Also, the torque spec for those bolts is 44 ft-lb + 90 deg. That final quarter turn should affect the clamping force significantly, as the bolts have already been torqued to 44 ft-lbs. Exactly how much of an effect it has is somewhat complicated to calculate, as it requires that you know a good amount about the fastener's material properties and the coefficient of friction between the fastener and the surface. That being said, I doubt that the torque increase due to turning is just 2 ft-lbs.

So, regardless of whether or not your reused bolts are still good, I'd bet that they're all under-torqued since you've set them to 46 ft-lbs. I'd suggest re-torquing them to the correct spec at the very minimum, but you've got new bolts, so might as well just swap them at that point.

[sapote]

FCP is the way to go. They truly ask zero questions with lifetime warranty returns,

For the used bolts, it's hard for FCP of what to ask, but do they ask to show a leaking water pump or radiator?

[Cubieman]

I was holding out using them until I replaced the PS res. and hoses, but that plate doesn't seem like it would gain anymore access for that particular job. I'll go put the new bolts in tonight and use the angle gauge as well, need to get a tech angle wrench already, can't imagine what's holding me back there...$$$.

[timmo]

For the used bolts, it's hard for FCP of what to ask, but do they ask to show a leaking water pump or radiator?

It's truly no-questions asked - send whatever you want back and they will refund you. I feel kinda bad about this but for my non-M I was playing around with the new thermostat I got, and accidentally pulled the connector out and broke the wires. A new one was on its way without any issue.

Even if they do ask, yielded bolts is a good enough reason to justify getting replacements

[heinzboehmer]

Yeah FCP truly just takes back whatever. I've never had them contact me about anything.

I sometimes feel bad too, almost as if I'm abusing the system, even though they actively encourage returning whatever you want (take a look at their instagram @fcpeurolrg). But hey, I also pretty much exclusively buy parts from them, so it's not like I'm gonna run them out of business returning a couple things here and there (and through a policy that they show off and encourage people to take advantage of).

Cubieman, if you're doing simple angle torquing like this (I think the tolerance for the angle torque of these bolts is something like ±30 deg), then a sharpie mark on the bolt head is good enough to let you eyeball the angle. No need for a digital torque wrench or anything. Definitely don't try that technique with something like rod bolts though lol

[Fresh1179]

+1 on FCP Euro and a Paint Pen. If you order two sets of the bolts you can always have one set available for the car at all times. You choose the tip of one hex and draw a line from the middle of the the second adjacent hex. That’s a terrible description but you know what I’m saying. 90 degrees after your initial 44 ft lbs.


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[old///MFanatic]

It’s actually a misconception these are in fact “torque to yield bolts”. The fastening procedure given is “angle torque”. Much easier to look up than me try and explain. If you examine the bolts you’ll see they don’t have a TTY bolt design. Since they are listed in TIS as “replace” it’s just assumed that was the reason. I absolutely believed this too until shown.
If you go to the dealership and almost any shop you’ll see they don’t replace. Looked over warranty replacement on oil level sensor and other jobs requiring the reinforcement pan removed and no bolts listed.

With all this in mind, you don’t want these getting corroded and snapping head flush. So examine them, clean threads and you’ll be fine. New bolts every now and then if worried won’t hurt anything. Just the cost. If I lived in rust belt area I certainly would be more inclined, but the plate is not a critical part that needs TTY like internal engine components.

[Icecream]

It’s actually a misconception these are in fact “torque to yield bolts”. The fastening procedure given is “angle torque”. Much easier to look up than me try and explain. If you examine the bolts you’ll see they don’t have a TTY bolt design. Since they are listed in TIS as “replace” it’s just assumed that was the reason. I absolutely believed this too until shown.
If you go to the dealership and almost any shop you’ll see they don’t replace. Looked over warranty replacement on oil level sensor and other jobs requiring the reinforcement pan removed and no bolts listed.

With all this in mind, you don’t want these getting corroded and snapping head flush. So examine them, clean threads and you’ll be fine. New bolts every now and then if worried won’t hurt anything. Just the cost. If I lived in rust belt area I certainly would be more inclined, but the plate is not a critical part that needs TTY like internal engine components.

Mine snapped (brand new) on the third reuse

[timmo]

It’s actually a misconception these are in fact “torque to yield bolts”. The fastening procedure given is “angle torque”. Much easier to look up than me try and explain. If you examine the bolts you’ll see they don’t have a TTY bolt design. Since they are listed in TIS as “replace” it’s just assumed that was the reason. I absolutely believed this too until shown.
If you go to the dealership and almost any shop you’ll see they don’t replace. Looked over warranty replacement on oil level sensor and other jobs requiring the reinforcement pan removed and no bolts listed.

With all this in mind, you don’t want these getting corroded and snapping head flush. So examine them, clean threads and you’ll be fine. New bolts every now and then if worried won’t hurt anything. Just the cost. If I lived in rust belt area I certainly would be more inclined, but the plate is not a critical part that needs TTY like internal engine components.

There's actually quite the extensive thread on E46F on this as well - many have reused with no issue. What I'd recommend is checking for clear signs of yielding before replacing, such as necking of the fastener. If it looks the same, it's probably fine

[heinzboehmer]

Yeah, I've also had my suspicious that they're not torque to yield. Even after multiple reuses, mine have exhibited no signs of yielding and have torqued up just fine. Just have never seen any definitive proof that that's the case.

That being said, I still replace them everytime now just in case. It's free and I reeeally don't want to deal with having to extract a broken bolt from the subframe or something like that.

[sapote]

I'll go put the new bolts in tonight and use the angle gauge as well, need to get a tech angle wrench already.

90* is easy -- just know where you start and mentally calculate where is your destination, then just do one continuous pull on the wrench.

[yhp2009]

Off topic, but I really do wonder how fcp is able to eat that cost sometimes. Although i do notice that all their parts are slightly higher priced than places like ecs/turner

[Cubieman]

Off topic, but I really do wonder how fcp is able to eat that cost sometimes. Although i do notice that all their parts are slightly higher priced than places like ecs/turner

I have notice the higher prices as well, ECS almost always has a slightly better price on most items. Up until about 6 months ago just about everything I purchased came from ECS, there were a few exceptions like OEM Diff. fluid and if ECS didn't have it in stock I would go FCP.
Now almost everything comes from FCP as I plan on using the return policy, I may feel like an asshole when doing so, but as noted they actively tout their return policy.

I need to figure out how to "activate" the paypal return feature that covers return shipping, it has been discussed on the forum more than once. I *think* you are allowed a certain number of free returns per year, they are not indefinite, but I don't know. That would be good for sending back oil or other heavy items.

[yhp2009]

Yea honestly if that extra bit of price hike serves as "insurance" to cover our parts than i'd be more than willing to pay. Although in the end if everyone uses it it becomes unsustainable. Its a weird policy i cant wrap my head around it lol