Different DSC's for different MY cars?

[scubastove]

I have a 2002 M3, after doing some research I'm finding there are different models of DSC units for these cars. I've found that MY 2003+ cars have a "MK60" DSC unit while the earlier years have something different I presume.

What are the differences in these DSC units? Does it affect the DSC/traction control of my 2002 M3?

Furthermore, just trying to get some more information. Do early model year cars have DSC AND Traction control?

[heinzboehmer]

Do early model year cars have DSC AND Traction control?

Yes early model year cars do have DSC and traction control.

The main differences between the two manifest as a result of BMW using the MK60 unit in both ZCP/CSL M3s and regular ones. This basically what an MK60 can do that an MK20 can't:

- M track mode can be enabled (already is if you have a ZCP).
- Has two settings for ABS as ZCP/CSL brakes were bigger than regular brakes. This might help ABS performance if upgrading to bigger brakes.
- Has two settings for steering racks as ZCP/CSL rack was a different ratio. Can help tone down traction control false triggers when using a different rack, since you can change the ratio to something closer.

Also, MK60 cars got a different brake master cylinder, which slightly changed the brake bias.

DSC and ABS performance is supposedly different, but I haven't driven an MK60 car (mine has an MK20), so I'll let someone else comment on that.

You can retrofit an MK60, but it is pretty involved and expensive. Not worth it in my opinion unless you consistently use DSC on the track and find the MK20 to be detrimental for your setup.

[pawa_k2001]

What are the differences in ZCP and regular MK60 abs module?

[heinzboehmer]

What are the differences in ZCP and regular MK60 abs module?

If I'm not mistaken, it's just the settings for the brake size and steering rack ratio that differ.

Edit: Also m track mode is enabled for ZCPs from the factory.

[Arith2]

Do you know the brake bias difference by any chance?

[heinzboehmer]

Do you know the brake bias difference by any chance?

Looks like MK20 is 56.0%F 44.0%R and MK60 is 60.6%F 39.4%R.

More info here: https://thebuildjournal.com/tech-gui...-chart-e46-m3/

[bjz!]

If I'm not mistaken, it's just the settings for the brake size and steering rack ratio that differ.

Edit: Also m track mode is enabled for ZCPs from the factory.

Involve a lot of things.

We will put for sale a full kit soon, to retrofit it.

ECU and SMG with CSLSoftware
SMG Cluster with M Track indicator
CSL ABS Coded
Steering wheel trim with M Track Button
ABS Pump
ABS sensors
Wiring
MK60 of course.

It is a little bit expensive, but...

You can even calibrate in the future ABS RACE if you want.

[ethan]

bjz! , regarding ABS RACE, are you saying that the E46 M3 MK60 hardware is capable of running Bosch Motorsports Race firmware? I remember there was lengthy discussion on m3f about the hardware differences between MK60, MK60 ZCP, and MK60 Bosch Motorsports (or lack thereof), but I don't know if concensus was ever reached. I'm sure the Porsche race guys who swap MK60s in have that all figured out...

I have a 2001 DD M3 with MK20 and a 2002 "track" car which I converted to MK60. I find the MK20 DSC useless for any sort of spirited driving (just a thing to turn off when I get in the car), whereas the MK60 in M-track mode is excellent. The ABS performance is significantly better with the MK60 too, but it's not a 1:1 comparison given the different tires (200TW) and brakes (996) on the MK60 car.

I had the chassis stripped and on a rotisserie, so running fresh hard lines from the DSC unit to each corner wasn't all that challenging, but I would not want to attempt it on a car which still had parts on it. Maybe worth considering if you're also doing an RACP repair/reinforcement at the same time or you have the gas tank dropped from some other reason.

[Obioban]

MK20 is the most invasive (worst) DSC and can't be tweaked for ZCP/ZHP or ZCP/CSL brake bias. It's also a PITA on track as it tends to go into ice mode (no brakes) with really sticky tires and threshold braking.

MK60 normal is considerably less invasive, can be coded for ZCP/ZHP racks and ZCP/CSL bias, and can have MTM enabled through coding (with DSC button short press)

MK60 from the ZCP/CSL is the same as above, but has slightly less invasive ABS thresholds, uses a different button than DSC to enable MTM, and can be reflashed with the BMW Bosch Motorsports race firmware (though you lose DSC when doing this, so not a great move for cars that see any street use) by a couple people in the know.

I believe there's also a non M e46 MK60, but I don't know anything about that one.

[bjz!]

bjz! , regarding ABS RACE, are you saying that the E46 M3 MK60 hardware is capable of running Bosch Motorsports Race firmware? I remember there was lengthy discussion on m3f about the hardware differences between MK60, MK60 ZCP, and MK60 Bosch Motorsports (or lack thereof), but I don't know if concensus was ever reached. I'm sure the Porsche race guys who swap MK60s in have that all figured out...

I have a 2001 DD M3 with MK20 and a 2002 "track" car which I converted to MK60. I find the MK20 DSC useless for any sort of spirited driving (just a thing to turn off when I get in the car), whereas the MK60 in M-track mode is excellent. The ABS performance is significantly better with the MK60 too, but it's not a 1:1 comparison given the different tires (200TW) and brakes (996) on the MK60 car.

I had the chassis stripped and on a rotisserie, so running fresh hard lines from the DSC unit to each corner wasn't all that challenging, but I would not want to attempt it on a car which still had parts on it. Maybe worth considering if you're also doing an RACP repair/reinforcement at the same time or you have the gas tank dropped from some other reason.

There is two types of MK60, You can run ABS Race with one, not with the other.

[pawa_k2001]

Probably a unpopular opinion but, I don't see a problem with moving some brake bias to the rear on a modified car. A stock M3 has soft suspension so weight transfer is more of an issue than on a modified car which has a lower center of gravity and more spring which doesn't allow as much weight transfer. I am currently at 53.3/46.7 and the car has never felt dangerous, it actually feels better.

[terra]

bjz! , regarding ABS RACE, are you saying that the E46 M3 MK60 hardware is capable of running Bosch Motorsports Race firmware? I remember there was lengthy discussion on m3f about the hardware differences between MK60, MK60 ZCP, and MK60 Bosch Motorsports (or lack thereof), but I don't know if concensus was ever reached. I'm sure the Porsche race guys who swap MK60s in have that all figured out...

I have a 2001 DD M3 with MK20 and a 2002 "track" car which I converted to MK60. I find the MK20 DSC useless for any sort of spirited driving (just a thing to turn off when I get in the car), whereas the MK60 in M-track mode is excellent. The ABS performance is significantly better with the MK60 too, but it's not a 1:1 comparison given the different tires (200TW) and brakes (996) on the MK60 car.

I had the chassis stripped and on a rotisserie, so running fresh hard lines from the DSC unit to each corner wasn't all that challenging, but I would not want to attempt it on a car which still had parts on it. Maybe worth considering if you're also doing an RACP repair/reinforcement at the same time or you have the gas tank dropped from some other reason.

Probably not *Bosch* motorsport firmware since the unit is made by Teves/Continental/Ate, but some sort of motorsport firmware is allegedly possible. Though I've only ever heard of it in hushed whispers.

[liam821]

Here is some more info on the MK60:

So there are 3 different ATE part numbers on the black controller of the DSC.

ATE 10.0960-813.3
ATE 10.0960-818.3
ATE 10.0960-817.3

The first 2 came on the standard M3 and the 817.3 came on CSL and ZCP.

The 813.3 and 817.3 are supposedly able to be flashed with the BMW motorsport software, but the only people claiming to do this charge a lot and it's unclear if they actually know how to do it. I'm told it's just better to buy a Motorsport MK60. If I remember correctly, the Motorsport MK60 has the 817.3 part number but the software is entirely different. More on the motorsport software in a bit.

The 817.3 has an extra pin on the connector for the M-track button. M-track can be added to the other 2 part numbers easily through NCSExpert/NCSDummy by repurposing the DSC button to be single push for M-track and 3 second hold for DSC off. NCS expert also allows you to change steering rack and brake setting on the 813.3 and 818.3 to work with the ZCP steering rack and brakes. At that point, they become no different in function from the 817.3 other than lacking the provision for the M-track button as far as we have been able to tell.

Back to the motorsport software. The motorsport software is actually pure, high-performance ABS and it deletes DSC and traction control altogether. By high performance ABS, I mean that it has a higher threshold before it kicks. The street ABS kicks in earlier and is tuned with more safety in mind instead of track performance.

If you're interested in a Motorsport MK60, contact Raymond @ TRF (info@trf-performance.no). They had one for sale last I checked. Not sure what they're asking for it.

[bjz!]

Probably not *Bosch* motorsport firmware since the unit is made by Teves/Continental/Ate, but some sort of motorsport firmware is allegedly possible. Though I've only ever heard of it in hushed whispers.

No Bosch. But we are testing it yet. But with the quarantine...

Yes Liam, cost around a grand

[ethan]

Probably not *Bosch* motorsport firmware since the unit is made by Teves/Continental/Ate, but some sort of motorsport firmware is allegedly possible. Though I've only ever heard of it in hushed whispers.

Oh, yeah. Don't know why I had Bosch on my mind. Thanks.

liam821 Great post!