ZCP vs CSL Wheel and Performance

[Nate047]

Yep.

People are obsessed with wheel weight over everything else. The best wheels come out of the forges in japan and some are super light but also super ugly like TEs. Not sure how those reached the level of fame they did. They were ugly when they came out in the 90s and they're ugly to this day. They're the aviator glasses of wheels, look good on very few people but everybody has them.

BBS are my wheel of choice but have terrible finish options that they have been clinging to for decades which is why people are stuck on csl/zcp wheels (and for good reason). RGR has a terrible rear offset and silver finish is rare plus they don't have enough pad thickness to accommodate big brakes without spacers.

Amazing comparison hahaha. I would agree. I like TEs on some cars and I have owned them before, but there's a time and place. I think the CE28N is actually a really great wheel for the E46 and not commonly seen.

Regarding the BBS finishes and sizing, maybe with them being recently acquired by KW some of that will change. It sounds like Klaus wants to expand the sizing options and likely finishes as well. BBS has absolutely been resting on their laurels with regards to modern fitment needs, and I believe KW is capable of bringing them back to the front while not losing quality. I do not expect the prices to decrease much if any.

[maw1124]

Just in case people want actual facts… https://bimmertips.com/oem-bmw-e46-m...options-specs/

Is this correct that the difference between style 67s and ZCP wheels in 19” is 2-3 lbs per corner?

But I see where folks got the wider front wheel idea from… of course that makes the CSL wheel heavier than the ZCP wheel… but we can pretend not to see that.

maw

[Tbonem3]

But I see where folks got the wider front wheel idea from… of course that makes the CSL wheel heavier than the ZCP wheel… but we can pretend not to see that.

maw

What are you talking about? I already said the weight diff between them is negligible, now you post a link with weights that show they're barely different.

Pretend not to see what?

[tnord]

Regarding the BBS finishes and sizing, maybe with them being recently acquired by KW some of that will change. It sounds like Klaus wants to expand the sizing options and likely finishes as well. BBS has absolutely been resting on their laurels with regards to modern fitment needs, and I believe KW is capable of bringing them back to the front while not losing quality. I do not expect the prices to decrease much if any.

looking a little closer at size options from BBS, I'm not real impressed. I guess this is what Apex saw and seized on, and why their wheels are so popular. Most of the strength, most of the weight reduction, in better size options, for less cost. Albeit made in China it sounds like.

I do not like to mess about with spacers, and the amount of wheels that come in an 18x10 & 18x9 option with appropriate offsets seem limited.

[Obioban]

looking a little closer at size options from BBS, I'm not real impressed. I guess this is what Apex saw and seized on, and why their wheels are so popular. Most of the strength, most of the weight reduction, in better size options, for less cost. Albeit made in China it sounds like.

I do not like to mess about with spacers, and the amount of wheels that come in an 18x10 & 18x9 option with appropriate offsets seem limited.

Apex’s are nowhere near as strong as BBS’s.

[tnord]

fair enough. perhaps I should have said they are stronger than typical aftermarket price focused wheels, but not to the level of BBS.

[repoman89]

Does forged vs flow formed generally make the resulting wheel stronger or just lighter? For example the Apex EC-7 vs EC-7R. The R version is nearly 10% lighter and really tempting for my next track wheels — but still slightly heavier than the regular cheap ARC-8 IIRC. Still, kind of hard to justify over the regular ARC-8 just for better (IMO) looks if it’s not also stronger.

[Nate047]

fair enough. perhaps I should have said they are stronger than typical aftermarket price focused wheels, but not to the level of BBS.

I mean, not necessarily... People break Apex wheels all the time. Any wheel will break if you run into something hard enough. My biggest gripe with Apex is that they are flagrant knock off designs of classic BBS but act like they're somehow elevated above other fake wheels.

Also I was extremely unimpressed by the mud slinging campaign they launched against BimmerWorld and Titan7 with the announcement of their forged wheels, regarding the VIA stamps and what not. That was unprofessional as hell and just made them look petty and desperate. I know I'm not alone with that opinion.

[old///MFanatic]

Does forged vs flow formed generally make the resulting wheel stronger or just lighter?

Both

[Tbonem3]

I don't think it makes it much lighter, but certainly stronger.

I think Ian said it recently, but I would also say get the cheap wheels for the track. Don't ruin nice, expensive wheels unless you've got deep pockets/race team/sponsored.

[tnord]

I mean, not necessarily... People break Apex wheels all the time. Any wheel will break if you run into something hard enough. My biggest gripe with Apex is that they are flagrant knock off designs of classic BBS but act like they're somehow elevated above other fake wheels.

Also I was extremely unimpressed by the mud slinging campaign they launched against BimmerWorld and Titan7 with the announcement of their forged wheels, regarding the VIA stamps and what not. That was unprofessional as hell and just made them look petty and desperate. I know I'm not alone with that opinion.

I wasn't around for that drama.

The ARC 8 is kinda like the BBS RC I think? And the EC7 a better looking CH? But the sizes, offsets, and finishes are a more direct BMW application right? That seems like a good thing? I mean, how many wheels are a "flagrant knock off" of ***whatever the original 5 spoke wheel was***?

I would love to get a set of BBS wheels, and I don't mind paying for them if they're better. But "better" in my mind has to include being the proper fit.

[Obioban]

I wasn't around for that drama.

The ARC 8 is kinda like the BBS RC I think? And the EC7 a better looking CH? But the sizes, offsets, and finishes are a more direct BMW application right? That seems like a good thing? I mean, how many wheels are a "flagrant knock off" of ***whatever the original 5 spoke wheel was***?

I would love to get a set of BBS wheels, and I don't mind paying for them if they're better. But "better" in my mind has to include being the proper fit.

This is, sadly, why I ran the RAC GBs back in the day. There isn’t isn’t a compromise free staggered 18” setup for the car other than the RG63s, IMO.

… which, to be fair, is a self fulfilling prophecy since I got to choose the size/offsets/flange, so they are literally designed to what I desire in a street setup.

[Tbonem3]

EC7 is the GT4 iirc or whatever it's called, not CH.

[Nate047]

And the fitment thing brings me back to what I said earlier about KW buying BBS, and how that will likely lead to more modern fitments of classic wheels becoming available in time.

[old///MFanatic]

Hi all,
Driving an 06 ZCP and wheels have been thrashed as a daily. I was thinking of buying a set of CSL's (if they ever come back to production) to replace my comp wheels or just have the comp wheels refinished.

^This. Have them refurbished.