ZCP vs CSL Wheel and Performance

[Obioban]

Light
cheap
well made

pick 2, for a wheel anyone should consider buying (some are 1 or 0, none are all 3).

imo, for a track wheel I want light and cheap, for a street wheel I want light and strong.

[tnord]

Their site says "Depending on the build requirements, manufacturing and refinishing could be split between our partners located in Toronto and its surrounding area, China, Germany, and the United States."

So, China basically. But to be fair, same for Apex, BimmerWorld and Titan7.

Interested in which options aren't from China.

[Obioban]

Interested in which options aren't from China.

Volke, BBS, factory BMW wheels, RACs, etc.

[Nate047]

Interested in which options aren't from China.

There are plenty, like listed above. Obviously there's also a price gap.

[tnord]

Volke, BBS, factory BMW wheels, RACs, etc.

I'm uninformed on this topic.

factory wheels are insanely heavy. Volk wheels are expensive and seems like you might be waiting 6-12mos for them, maybe that's changed? RAC wheels were unavailable from the couple sites I looked at. Many of the BBS wheels don't seem to be available in 18'' sizes. The RGR seemed like the best option.

I suppose HRE would be an option too, but goodness a set of those costs more than a rebuilt engine.

[Obioban]

I'm uninformed on this topic.

factory wheels are insanely heavy. Volk wheels are expensive and seems like you might be waiting 6-12mos for them, maybe that's changed? RAC wheels were unavailable from the couple sites I looked at. Many of the BBS wheels don't seem to be available in 18'' sizes. The RGR seemed like the best option.

I suppose HRE would be an option too, but goodness a set of those costs more than a rebuilt engine.

HREs aren't that great, either.

BBS is hard to beat. I'm running 17" RG-Rs on the M3 wagon (16 lbs front, 17 lbs rear), I used to run 18" RG-Rs on the M3 wagon (until I was able to find a set of 17s), I'm running 18" RG-Rs on the M5 (18 lbs front, 19 lbs rear), and, 10+ years ago, before I knew better (about 19s), I ran 19" RG-Rs on the M3. They're light, they're crazy strong, and not stupidly expensive. 8000+ ton forged in Japan, and thoroughly tested/certified.

That said, pick 2 still applies (light, cheap, well made)-- BBS's forged wheels are absolutely in the light/well made category.

[Nate047]

Yea pretty much if you want nice forged street wheels that don't come from China, and you can still buy new, pony up for BBS. Most forged BBS come from Japan. There are other period correct options that pop up used sometimes.

And TBH you don't always "need" forged, and forged doesn't always mean good. Factory 19" style 67s are forged (made by Fuchs) but they weigh like 27 lbs each. And just to further complicate, factory CSL wheels are made by BBS but are not forged lol.

[Nick_P]

HREs aren't that great, either.

BBS is hard to beat. I'm running 17" RG-Rs on the M3 wagon (16 lbs front, 17 lbs rear), I used to run 18" RG-Rs on the M3 wagon (until I was able to find a set of 17s), I'm running 18" RG-Rs on the M5 (18 lbs front, 19 lbs rear), and, 10+ years ago, before I knew better (about 19s), I ran 19" RG-Rs on the M3. They're light, they're crazy strong, and not stupidly expensive. 8000+ ton forged in Japan, and thoroughly tested/certified.

That said, pick 2 still applies (light, cheap, well made)-- BBS's forged wheels are absolutely in the light/well made category.

BBS RIAs also come in 18” and look good in our cars imo. I’m actually considering buying a set for street-duty.
What specs would you recommend for a staggered street setup? Contemplating between 18x8.5 ET34 front or 18x9.5 et27 front.

[Obioban]

BBS RIAs also come in 18” and look good in our cars imo. I’m actually considering buying a set for street-duty.
What specs would you recommend for a staggered street setup? Contemplating between 18x8.5 ET34 front or 18x9.5 et27 front.

I don't like a wide wheel/tire up front for street use, so I'd go with an 8.5"

[Nick_P]

I don't like a wide wheel/tire up front for street use, so I'd go with an 8.5"

Yea that’s what I was leaning towards as well, as driving with my 18x9.5 track setup on street gets annoying and unnecessary over time.

[tnord]

BBS RIAs also come in 18” and look good in our cars imo. I’m actually considering buying a set for street-duty.
What specs would you recommend for a staggered street setup? Contemplating between 18x8.5 ET34 front or 18x9.5 et27 front.

they look pretty good, but I still think the traditional mesh style wheel is the proper, period correct look. The RIA styling I think better matches the F80, but I do like them. I currently have 18x9 & 18x10 EC-7s on 245/275.

I have to admit I was pretty surprised watching the video about the BBS E88s on the Apex E92 M3, having the barrels crack on a pretty regular basis. Enough that they consider them a maintenance item.

[jet_dogg]

Yea pretty much if you want nice forged street wheels that don't come from China, and you can still buy new, pony up for BBS. Most forged BBS come from Japan. There are other period correct options that pop up used sometimes.

And TBH you don't always "need" forged, and forged doesn't always mean good. Factory 19" style 67s are forged (made by Fuchs) but they weigh like 27 lbs each. And just to further complicate, factory CSL wheels are made by BBS but are not forged lol.

Yep.

People are obsessed with wheel weight over everything else. The best wheels come out of the forges in japan and some are super light but also super ugly like TEs. Not sure how those reached the level of fame they did. They were ugly when they came out in the 90s and they're ugly to this day. They're the aviator glasses of wheels, look good on very few people but everybody has them.

BBS are my wheel of choice but have terrible finish options that they have been clinging to for decades which is why people are stuck on csl/zcp wheels (and for good reason). RGR has a terrible rear offset and silver finish is rare plus they don't have enough pad thickness to accommodate big brakes without spacers.

[Nick_P]

they look pretty good, but I still think the traditional mesh style wheel is the proper, period correct look. The RIA styling I think better matches the F80, but I do like them. I currently have 18x9 & 18x10 EC-7s on 245/275.

I have to admit I was pretty surprised watching the video about the BBS E88s on the Apex E92 M3, having the barrels crack on a pretty regular basis. Enough that they consider them a maintenance item.

I agree on both fronts. But in my case I already have the stock ZCP 19s and Apex ARC8s for track duty so looking for a different style wheel.
I’ve watched the e88 video you’re referring to, imo Apex wheels are a pretty solid offering for track…(1) relatively cheap so you can beat up on them and not care too much about brake dust building up, their finish getting destroyed, etc, (2) relatively lightweight and (3) look really good in our cars even if they’re way overplayed. Going out on track with $5K e88s would be too nerve racking for me lol

[old///MFanatic]

And just to further complicate, factory CSL wheels are made by BBS but are not forged lol.

Yep, CSL wheels are made by BBS Germany and are made using a strong process called “Flow Formed”. (which is one step under their forged).

[tnord]

I am not hung up on forged. But there seems to be a correlation between having a strong wheel, and that wheel being manufactured by a forging process.