BBK Crisis-996 or Anything Else

[Nate047]

How do you guys feel about how the 996 calipers affect the brake bias vs stock?

[jet_dogg]

I’ll be honest Didn’t realize the f80 kit was 380. That’s way too big especially with 200tw tires.

I really just want a kit with good brake bias, good pad options, that gets rid of the flexing rear caliper.

I had the st40 332mm with oem rears and was cracking rings too often. The pedal feel also sucked.

The brembo 355 gt-s kit is on my wish list but not sure which rear kit to pair it with.

Life is too short for fake brembos and you can only regret not getting them.

Just get the brembos dogg.

[mrgizmo04]

The brembo 355 gt-s kit is on my wish list but not sure which rear kit to pair it with.

It should do well with the Porsche rears.

Remember the other option for front is to use the e9x rotor which I think is 360x30mm. Uses Porsche calipers with special bracket. I think freaky parts (or something with "freaky" in the name in UK sells a kit). I looked up the info a while back on realoem and I think those rotors (also semi 2 piece cross drilled) are around 23 lbs, so heavy. For comparison, a Stoptech 355x32 proper 2 piece hat/ring is around 18 lbs while the CSL 345x28 semi 2 piece cross drilled is around 19lbs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Cronenberged]

mrgizmo04 Freakyparts is correct, their a UK based company. https://freakyparts.co.uk/ In terms of brake bias they're 345mm kit is what the guy from Build Journal is running and maintains near identical brake bias. Adding the rear 996 brings the bias even closer to stoke. They do also over the 360mm kit for the e90 rotor.

I've yet to pull the trigger on a BBK, but this is most likely the route I'll go do to saving money on consumables. Plus I remember reading Polar's exhausting long posts on brake bias and it's importance from the old forum.

[Obioban]

I had brembo GTs for 15 years, moved to 996 two years ago to FCP my consumables.

Other than the FCP factor, they’re only worse than my brembos were. I’m replacing rotors yearly instead of every ~5 years, pads get 2-3 events instead of 4-6, they’re heavier…

… but free replacement rotors and pads makes that all worth it for me.

I finished my final set of DS1s in my last event (which was dramatic— had of failure, so I was suddenly backing plate on rotor). Next year I’ll be on the Hawks… which I’m not super optimistic for.

Pad swaps are easy. Pedal feel is good. Free is free.

I’m also ducted, and my car is ~300 lbs lighter than stock.

I currently have no regrets or plans to change. If FCP stops carrying track pads, changes their policy, or goes away, I’ll suddenly be very full of regrets.

[r4dr]

Do you want free consumables - or great brakes?

I think about this quote a lot when I read threads like these... lol. I've burned enough money on track day fees and ancillary expenses (hotels, my time, etc.) to learn that I'd rather just spend the money and do things properly. Having a crappy track day because I tried to be cheap in the wrong place feels bad.

[maupineda]

How do you guys feel about how the 996 calipers affect the brake bias vs stock?

true betold, 996 option actually provides less braking power, but they improve feel and modulation, if done front and right balance is basically unaffected from a bias point of view.

I went with BMW 6 pote E9x/E8x Performance calipers and rear 996, but again, I do have 14% and 20% less braking power front and rear respectively from the OE ZCP / CSL setup

[maupineda]

You can see that break torque for Porsche setup and my setup is less from the base ZCP setup that my car had (Z4M)

I am very happy with feel and modulation, makes you believe you have better brakes, but the reality is that the base system is more powerful. I can still trigger the ABS on dry tarmac, but for a track junkie with track tires, etc, I bet the stock brakes do better objectively, even when we don't like how they feel.

[Obioban]

The 996 brakes, with DS1.1s at least, have had no issue engaging ABS on R comps (I've been through RE-71s, NT-01s, and PSC2s one these brakes so far).

I do feel that I have to apply more pedal to get there, but that could also be attributed to running shittier pads (ran mostly PF-01s on the Brembo setup on tracks).

[repoman89]

You have to apply more pedal because the caliper piston area is smaller in total than the stock (at least ZCP) setup. That means without larger MC pistons, the pedal has to travel further down to apply the same torque at the pad and rotor. It doesn’t mean at all that there is less total brake torque available, just that the pedal has to travel more to get that torque (up to the limit of pedal on the floor, but neither setup gets even close to that condition)

edit: might have some things backward but the point stands that there is plenty of pressure available from the stock pedal / MC to provide the same braking force / torque with both setups without having the pedal on the floor

[maupineda]

You have to apply more pedal because the caliper piston area is smaller in total than the stock (at least ZCP) setup. That means without larger MC pistons, the pedal has to travel further down to apply the same torque at the pad and rotor. It doesn’t mean at all that there is less total brake torque available, just that the pedal has to travel more to get that torque (up to the limit of pedal on the floor, but neither setup gets even close to that condition)

Yes, but pedal travel is limited, so at max pedal travel, with all else equal, the stock brake calipers outpower the 996's.

I am not debating or arguing, just sharing data for people to make informed decisions and prioritize what they want based on their needs and objectives.

[repoman89]

Yes, but pedal travel is limited, so at max pedal travel, with all else equal, the stock brake calipers outpower the 996's.

I am not debating or arguing, just sharing data for people to make informed decisions and prioritize what they want based on their needs and objectives.

Yep totally true I suppose. It just doesn't really matter because neither setup will get to max pedal travel even standing on the brakes. The system will max out at some point (for non-hulks at least) before the pedal hits the floor depending on compressibility of the pad.

The 996 setup certainly has a softer pedal but IMO the stock ZCP brakes were too hard and difficult to modulate. Totally personal preference though!

[Obioban]

Yes, but pedal travel is limited, so at max pedal travel, with all else equal, the stock brake calipers outpower the 996's.

I am not debating or arguing, just sharing data for people to make informed decisions and prioritize what they want based on their needs and objectives.

Overpowering isn't meaningful if tires are the limiting factor, which they are for both setups.

Given infinite grip, yes. But that's not the world we live in...

[Tbonem3]

As I see it, the issue with stock brakes is heat, not clamping force.

[S14]

You have to apply more pedal because the caliper piston area is smaller in total than the stock (at least ZCP) setup. That means without larger MC pistons, the pedal has to travel further down to apply the same torque at the pad and rotor. It doesn’t mean at all that there is less total brake torque available, just that the pedal has to travel more to get that torque (up to the limit of pedal on the floor, but neither setup gets even close to that condition)

edit: might have some things backward but the point stands that there is plenty of pressure available from the stock pedal / MC to provide the same braking force / torque with both setups without having the pedal on the floor

Is there larger MC options for the E46 platform?

I know in the E30 world you can swap around quite a few MC from various models of that era (25mm MC from 750 is a popular upgrade) to find the right pedal feel for the calipers used.