Helicoil vanos to head bolt hole

[Arinb12]

Not sure what you mean by dowel but I assume you mean the vanos mounting holes themselves are the dowels?

Are you saying helicoils are inferior? Surely for such a small torque they won't be bad? I'm not sure they are as readily available here in the UK

[George Hill]

Not sure what you mean by dowel but I assume you mean the vanos mounting holes themselves are the dowels?

Are you saying helicoils are inferior? Surely for such a small torque they won't be bad? I'm not sure they are as readily available here in the UK

There is a dowel on the outer mounting holes for the Vanos.

Yes, IMO heli coils are inferior.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224831453250?hash=item3458ffb842:g:nkgAAOSw2QViBNmi

YMMV and all that jazz.

[Arinb12]

There is a dowel on the outer mounting holes for the Vanos.

Yes, IMO heli coils are inferior.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224831453250?hash=item3458ffb842:g:nkgAAOSw2QViBNmi

YMMV and all that jazz.

Thanks!

Out of interest what makes the helicoils inferior in your eyes?

You mean this dowel, makes sense. Totally forgot about those being in there

[JamesSJ1]

I love this forum! I thought after doing the anti-rattle kit on my vanos, re-using the metal vanos gasket was just one time too many (probably 2-3x re-installed already) and had a leak on passenger side. It turns out somewhere along the way I did the same as the OP...stripped out the exact same vanos bolt. Seems like it's a thing from the number of comments here. And I figured it out how? Of course...after just completing a water pump and hoses replacement (left the radiator in...no problems for now), and replacing the vanos gasket as the last change, I found the stripped bolt. ARGH.

So assuming I don't want to pull the whole radiator off now (and might as well replace it if I've gone that far)...
1) Timesert is better choice?
a. Which kit do I need? http://www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html
b. Do you do Timesert with vanos in place? Do you drill anything out initially, or go straight to the counter-bore step? Looks like the vanos would be a good guide for the bit during that.
2) A handheld drill bit tool is doable with the radiator in place...might be preferable to do it by hand anyway?
a. anybody have a link to a hand tool they used? Everything I see is micro, for jewelry. Perhaps even just a chuck adapter like this is enough leverage to do this by hand? https://www.amazon.com/Keyless-Conve...dp/B08VGL6L33/

[heinzboehmer]

I love this forum! I thought after doing the anti-rattle kit on my vanos, re-using the metal vanos gasket was just one time too many (probably 2-3x re-installed already) and had a leak on passenger side. It turns out somewhere along the way I did the same as the OP...stripped out the exact same vanos bolt. Seems like it's a thing from the number of comments here. And I figured it out how? Of course...after just completing a water pump and hoses replacement (left the radiator in...no problems for now), and replacing the vanos gasket as the last change, I found the stripped bolt. ARGH.

So assuming I don't want to pull the whole radiator off now (and might as well replace it if I've gone that far)...
1) Timesert is better choice?
a. Which kit do I need? http://www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html
b. Do you do Timesert with vanos in place? Do you drill anything out initially, or go straight to the counter-bore step? Looks like the vanos would be a good guide for the bit during that.
2) A handheld drill bit tool is doable with the radiator in place...might be preferable to do it by hand anyway?
a. anybody have a link to a hand tool they used? Everything I see is micro, for jewelry. Perhaps even just a chuck adapter like this is enough leverage to do this by hand? https://www.amazon.com/Keyless-Conve...dp/B08VGL6L33/

1. I think so, yes

a. I can't remember, sorry about that. Maybe someone else can chime in.
b. No, VANOS need to come off. The dowel will get in the way. No need to retime the engine if you don't loosen the hub bolts though.

2. Yeah no need to remove anything besides the radiator shroud if doing it by hand.

a. The drill bit in the timesert kit has a square drive at the end, so I just used a regular tap wrench.

Documented what I had to do in my journal, hopefully it's helpful! https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...ge5#post185407

[George Hill]

Out of interest what makes the helicoils inferior in your eyes?

Missed your question previously. I think they are inferior because they don't seem to hold up well for repeated use. If it was a 1x repair then I see their positive attributes. But when I make a repair I prefer for it to be as permanent as possible and I have no trouble OR concern that a time sert will back out, gall and seize with the bolt any other method of damage unless the bolt turner did something wrong. I've had heli coils twist inside the bore and get stuck as well as have had them unscrew.

[George Hill]

1) Timesert is better choice? I think so
a. Which kit do I need? http://www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html The kit you want is 1610, and I believe you want the 9.4mm thread insert.
b. Do you do Timesert with vanos in place? Do you drill anything out initially, or go straight to the counter-bore step? Looks like the vanos would be a good guide for the bit during that. Drill with the Vanos in place then remove and complete the repair.
2) A handheld drill bit tool is doable with the radiator in place...might be preferable to do it by hand anyway? I believe I used a 90* pneumatic drill

[eacmen]

I have the tools required and timeserts if you want to borrow them. DM me if interested.


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[NE///M3SIS]

I recently helicoiled this exact bolt. Helicoil has been proven to be stronger than timesert. But either one will hold the torque perfectly.

[George Hill]

Helicoil has been proven to be stronger than timesert.

Data on this? I've seen tests where Time-Serts failed before Heli-Coils for sure. But at that point in failure the Heli-Coil was destroyed internally and the bolt wasn't coming out. So in that test, ya the HC lasted longer as far as separation goes, but as far as being usable it was a goner well before then.

[NE///M3SIS]

Data on this? I've seen tests where Time-Serts failed before Heli-Coils for sure. But at that point in failure the Heli-Coil was destroyed internally and the bolt wasn't coming out. So in that test, ya the HC lasted longer as far as separation goes, but as far as being usable it was a goner well before then.

I think the attached video below was one of the few examples of some interesting tests with all the various insert repair methods.

Regarding what the OP is interested in, he may want to skip to 11 minutes into the video where pressure load is tested. This will be important for his application.

But as I said, either one (Time Sert or Helicoil) would work perfectly for OP's intended repair and would easily hold the required torque for the bolt in question.

[eacmen]

When I did this repair myself I bought both helicoil and timesert kits I also got some stock aluminum. Practiced installing both. The tooling for the timesert kit is vastly superior than helicoil and the install is idiot proof. The tang on the helicoil was hard for me to break off and retrieve in the blind hole. I figured it would be even harder with the rad in place.

I’ve also personally pulled out bolts and the helicoil came with it. So I am a little biased against helicoil.

They both will work. Helicoil is cheaper and more widely available. At the end of the day comes down to personal preference.


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[heinzboehmer]

Data on this? I've seen tests where Time-Serts failed before Heli-Coils for sure. But at that point in failure the Heli-Coil was destroyed internally and the bolt wasn't coming out. So in that test, ya the HC lasted longer as far as separation goes, but as far as being usable it was a goner well before then.

Torque test channel got similar results to the video linked above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZItuPnU7lU

That being said, I would take the reusability of a timesert vs the strength of a helicoil for this use case (and for most). Seems like helicoils come out half the time you go undo the bolt.

[eacmen]

Torque test channel got similar results to the video linked above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZItuPnU7lU

That being said, I would take the reusability of a timesert vs the strength of a helicoil for this use case (and for most). Seems like helicoils come out half the time you go undo the bolt.

Yup! There is a reason that bmw factory approved thread repair are timesert-style and not helicoil-style.

Honestly I wish all aluminum parts just came with steel inserts everywhere!


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[heinzboehmer]

Honestly I wish all aluminum parts just came with steel inserts everywhere!

Use an impact driver to tighten every bolt when you work on your car and you'll end up with steel inserts on all your aluminum parts in no time lol