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    #16
    Originally posted by Jimbo's M View Post
    This is why we fail.
    Not to mention the bordenline slavery lifestyle.

    I don't think FAG is made in China. The vast majority of wheel bearings on BMWs are not going bad and I see bad BMWs almost everday.

    VW uses some other brand on their cars and those are a maintenance service basically. Porsche uses FAG and only age kills those. It's pretty much the old grease that causes them to fail. The stuff dries up after 15 years. Can't really fix that.
    This is my Unbuild Journal and why we need an oil thread
    https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...nbuild-journal

    "Do it right once or do it twice"

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      #17
      Originally posted by sapote View Post

      All the iphones are made in china and quality is not the issue.
      FAG is a giant in bearing. As long as the process, material, and QC are controlled by FAG then the products should be the same if they were made in Germany or French or USA.
      Just on United Airlines, Apple sends 50 people to China PER DAY for quality control. No other company is doing anything remotely like that.
      https://www.businessinsider.com/appl...gn-2019-1?op=1

      ... and Apple is moving as much production out of China as they can.

      2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
      2012 LMB/Black 128i
      2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

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        #18
        Originally posted by Arith2 View Post

        Not to mention the bordenline slavery lifestyle.

        I don't think FAG is made in China. The vast majority of wheel bearings on BMWs are not going bad and I see bad BMWs almost everday.

        VW uses some other brand on their cars and those are a maintenance service basically. Porsche uses FAG and only age kills those. It's pretty much the old grease that causes them to fail. The stuff dries up after 15 years. Can't really fix that.
        Hey now, not all of it is borderline slavery-- China also has large scale actual slavery.

        2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
        2012 LMB/Black 128i
        2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

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          #19
          Originally posted by Obioban View Post

          Hey now, not all of it is borderline slavery-- China also has large scale actual slavery.
          Fair point.
          This is my Unbuild Journal and why we need an oil thread
          https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...nbuild-journal

          "Do it right once or do it twice"

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            #20
            Originally posted by Arith2 View Post

            Not to mention the bordenline slavery lifestyle.

            I don't think FAG is made in China. The vast majority of wheel bearings on BMWs are not going bad and I see bad BMWs almost everday.

            VW uses some other brand on their cars and those are a maintenance service basically. Porsche uses FAG and only age kills those. It's pretty much the old grease that causes them to fail. The stuff dries up after 15 years. Can't really fix that.
            I see not just BMW’s but many other cars that use FAG from the factory. We’re seeing 40k miles on many cars where the bearings are starting to fail.

            Mahle turbos are now made in China as well. They’re going bad at 30k. But keep buying previously made in Austria parts and have fun?

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              #21
              Originally posted by Chas3n View Post

              I see not just BMW’s but many other cars that use FAG from the factory. We’re seeing 40k miles on many cars where the bearings are starting to fail.

              Mahle turbos are now made in China as well. They’re going bad at 30k. But keep buying previously made in Austria parts and have fun?
              A manufacturer, like VW, will accept cheaper parts whereas BMW quality standards are higher. There's a manufacturing engineer that decides how to make a part to a certain standard the cheapest. Many modern day parts, especially American cars, are just chinese crap. FAG could have a factory in Austria and China and depending on what a manufacturer is willing to pay, they may switch between the two.

              Or it could be as simple as those whole designed the car screwed up and asked for too weak of a wheel bearing.
              This is my Unbuild Journal and why we need an oil thread
              https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...nbuild-journal

              "Do it right once or do it twice"

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                #22
                Originally posted by Arith2 View Post

                A manufacturer, like VW, will accept cheaper parts whereas BMW quality standards are higher. There's a manufacturing engineer that decides how to make a part to a certain standard the cheapest. Many modern day parts, especially American cars, are just chinese crap. FAG could have a factory in Austria and China and depending on what a manufacturer is willing to pay, they may switch between the two.

                Or it could be as simple as those whole designed the car screwed up and asked for too weak of a wheel bearing.
                This is painting with a pretty broad brush. To say that VW, Ford, GM, Volvo or any other manufacturer is willing to accept crap and BMW is the pinnacle of engineering standards is a bit of a reach.

                Also, what OE parts on American cars are "Chinese crap"? Specifically which ones, because outside of a computer chip, I'm wondering which parts you're talking about.
                Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Casa de Mesa View Post

                  This is painting with a pretty broad brush. To say that VW, Ford, GM, Volvo or any other manufacturer is willing to accept crap and BMW is the pinnacle of engineering standards is a bit of a reach.

                  Also, what OE parts on American cars are "Chinese crap"? Specifically which ones, because outside of a computer chip, I'm wondering which parts you're talking about.
                  Most chips are from Taiwan, not china.

                  2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                  2012 LMB/Black 128i
                  2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Casa de Mesa View Post

                    This is painting with a pretty broad brush. To say that VW, Ford, GM, Volvo or any other manufacturer is willing to accept crap and BMW is the pinnacle of engineering standards is a bit of a reach.

                    Also, what OE parts on American cars are "Chinese crap"? Specifically which ones, because outside of a computer chip, I'm wondering which parts you're talking about.
                    Everything is a compromise in engineering. The perfect cars are $3 million. To mass produce products, there has to be cost savings in order to make a car affordable. Where a part is manufactured is a big deal when it comes to this. Comparing the plastics in a new BMW to any American car, it's night and day. Also I found, "made in china" on some parts of a GT350. The carpet in a Dodge is thin any almost that pseudo crap for an outside porch whereas BMW has comfortable quality. I had a 2022 C8 Corvette engine lock up on me coasting as 20mph. It has 602 miles. There were two more Vettes at the dealership it got towed to. The had a lot of blown LT engine from various vehicles. I've never seen a new German car lock up randomly. Modules are going out left and right in every modern car for various reasons. Being made in Taiwan is definitely part of it. Complexity always causes problems but they go out way more than they should. Taycans were always getting new modules when they got delivered to the dealership. Module is those are constantly dying.

                    To keep cost down, these manufacturers cut corners and American cars do it the most. Our major car manufacturers should've all went bankrupt in 2008 but I doubt much better would've replaced them. Tesla is absolute garbage. I have yet to see one with a headliner or hood that fits. As someone who works on cars and cares about quality, I think 95% of vehicles are absolute trash. Some of them are BMWs new and old. Reliability within the purpose of the vehicle is important and most are not just not due to manufacturing compromise.
                    This is my Unbuild Journal and why we need an oil thread
                    https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...nbuild-journal

                    "Do it right once or do it twice"

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Arith2 View Post

                      A manufacturer, like VW, will accept cheaper parts whereas BMW quality standards are higher. There's a manufacturing engineer that decides how to make a part to a certain standard the cheapest. Many modern day parts, especially American cars, are just chinese crap. FAG could have a factory in Austria and China and depending on what a manufacturer is willing to pay, they may switch between the two.

                      Or it could be as simple as those whole designed the car screwed up and asked for too weak of a wheel bearing.
                      This is false. I work for an OEM, and EU and American car companies have all similar standards, difference is specification the parts need to meet, and much less to do (actually nothing) with manufacturing location.

                      quality standars are the same no matter where the parts are made for original equipment and service parts.

                      fact: parts from China tend to be now more expensive to us due to logistics and risk of supply due to transit time.

                      oh! And we don’t choose changing sourcing from region to region based on cost, it is actually a nightmare to do and is only done if absolutely needed.

                      and lastly, suppliers don't get to choose where to produce and get the parts for us, we (OEM) must approve it.

                      all the above is true for service/replacement parts that are original / genuine.

                      for the aftermarket you are up to the supplier to abide to their own standards and controls, and not ours. But if you know you are getting the same part with the logo scrapped off then is the same part build on the same line, by the same people, and the same equipment as those need to be certified every year.
                      Last edited by maupineda; 07-16-2022, 05:04 AM.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Arith2 View Post
                        Everything is a compromise in engineering. The perfect cars are $3 million.
                        While I appreciate the education in design life (Edison light bulb anyone?), I still contend you're making some pretty broad reaching claims and spreading opinion as fact. Don't misunderstand me - I'm not anti-quality. Quite the opposite.

                        I agree with this forum's policy and my line of questioning is not meant as a personal attack. However, I am trying to offer up a different vantage point to yours.

                        If you buy into J.D. Power's methods used to measure quality, dependability, etc. let me save you some Google clicks and present a few things. Caveat: by no means am I trying to pretend J.D.P. is the last word in measuring quality, but it's easily accessible, the content isn't behind a paid-wall and took me all of 5 minutes to find this stuff.

                        2021 premium sporty car quality awards
                        2021 Coupe quality awards
                        Presumably for the 2022 model year, Chevy changed all suppliers and threw quality to the wind?

                        Some interesting cars show up in the 2006 model year. (tried to find something on our beloved E46 chassis, but alas...)

                        Who doesn't love a good bar chart:
                        Click image for larger version

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                        Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Arith2 View Post

                          Being made in Taiwan is definitely part of it.
                          Taiwan has the best semiconductor manufacturing prowess and most advanced facilities in the world. (TSMC)

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by repoman89 View Post

                            Taiwan has the best semiconductor manufacturing prowess and most advanced facilities in the world. (TSMC)
                            And very much not china.

                            2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                            2012 LMB/Black 128i
                            2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Obioban View Post

                              And very much not china.
                              Yet...

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                                #30
                                opcorn:




                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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