Dr Vanos Cryo hub or Beisan?

[Obioban]

Is actually a rather good advise. just do VANOS testing and visually inspect the tabs. if it was me, and I were paranoiac ,I would only change the hub and bolts. I have the feeling that even seals is better to stay factory as long as they are good, and VANOS testing would prove that out. I speak from experience, I did the whole thing following internet advise and went very bad.

so, if no noise, VANOS test ok, and pressure test ok, turn back and leave it alone.

Checking the tabs tells you nothing other than that the tabs have not yet failed. I've only ever seen one example posted of a partially failed tab, so overall failure must be happening VERY quickly-- which makes the odds of you catching the failure mid way through (by "checking" them) very unlikely.

Once the tab fails, if you're lucky you just have to replace the pump disk (with no core) and exhaust hub ($)... and if you're unlucky you need a new engine ($$$).

[eacmen]

Its not a matter of if your tab is broken its a matter of when.

Same with the chain guide.

Same with the cam bolts.

Back in the day when Beisan was drilling OE discs that were returned I’d say go Beisan. Since they started making their own disc I would be cautious. Some have reported issues. Should be easy work for any half-decent machine shop to measure and drill smaller holes in your existing disc.

I opt’d for the cryo treated hub as I didn’t want to do it again.

At this point at the age these engines are right now, this is basically becoming required preventative maintenance.

[cobra]

My 2002 M3 vert is in the shop for a valve adjustment with 112k miles. Last one was done at 91k so I know it is a few miles early and the hub and sprocket bolts were fine. I am thinking that while he is in there for the valve adjustment I will have him at least check the Vanos hub. I have some questions:

1. If the hub and sprocket bolts are fine, should I just leave well enough alone? I don't track or drive too hard.
2. If I decide to upgrade the hub, should I go with the Beisan hub? It is half the cost of the Dr Vanos cryo hub. I have heard nothing but good things about the Beisan product and support but my mechanic is recommending Dr Vanos.
3. Do I need to replace both the hub and pump disc? If the hub is not cracked should I send the pump disc to Beisan to have it redrilled? There seem to be conflicting opinions kicking around on the web

Replace the hub and bolts with Beisan hub, OEM bolts, and redrilled pump disc. The way fatigue failures occur, you will never see it a crack until it is too late.

how about the solenoid pack? 112k currently on car, no codes, replace or not?

The solenoid pack won't cause catastrophic engine failure and is easier to replace, so it's optional. Due to the labor it's probably better peace of mind to replace everything while you're in there.

Beisan re-soldered solenoids are garbage.

...

Wtf you talking about.

[jet_dogg]

Based one what? I've never seen an example of anyone having a failure with them (which is certainly not the case with the stock unit).

Based on testimonials here, on your very forum. Perhaps you were asleep during those posts but several people complained of inexplicable vanos issues not being resolved after having everything overhauled with Beisan parts and predominantly repaired solenoids.

You're comparing apples to oranges. These cars are twenty years old and your argument is based on decades old high mileage cars with 100-150k+ miles on the factory installed solenoid versus re-soldered units with tens of thousands. They will fail, give it time.

Is actually a rather good advise. just do VANOS testing and visually inspect the tabs. if it was me, and I were paranoiac ,I would only change the hub and bolts. I have the feeling that even seals is better to stay factory as long as they are good, and VANOS testing would prove that out. I speak from experience, I did the whole thing following internet advise and went very bad.

so, if no noise, VANOS test ok, and pressure test ok, turn back and leave it alone.

Thank you for providing an alternative viewpoint. Change the parts if you're paranoid is the take-away here.

[Tbonem3]

Some besian solenoids are DOA. I have 181k miles on all original parts except I did do a redrilled (oe) disk just cause, but original was ok, tabs were ok (at 140k).

If no vanos codes, I wouldn't replace the solenoid.

My 2002 with 130k had the most pristine vanos you've even seen, not even one marring of the hub disk. Incredible.

Most e46s dont have issues. Our perspective on the forums is well skewed.

The shearing intake bolts seem to be an 05/06 issue as far as I have seen. Never seen an earlier car have issues, but maybe there has been. I've been paying attention for years now.

[digger]

The tabs fail by fatigue, even if there are no cracks yet it’s fatigue life is being consumed basically every time engine is used. An Uncracked part that’s done 100k is not the same as a new part when it comes to fatigue.
Eventually the internal material damage will accumulate to a point and cause a fracture. Nobody can definitively say when but due to the consequence of failure it makes sense to err on the very cautious side

[Tbonem3]

If tabs are hammering the disc (and leaving evidence/heavy marring), I would expect fatigue at some point, but if there's ZERO evidence that the tabs are making contact with the edge of the disc's holes, then no, I wouldn't expect fatigue.

[eacmen]

Some besian solenoids are DOA. I have 181k miles on all original parts except I did do a redrilled (oe) disk just cause, but original was ok, tabs were ok (at 140k).

If no vanos codes, I wouldn't replace the solenoid.

My 2002 with 130k had the most pristine vanos you've even seen, not even one marring of the hub disk. Incredible.

Most e46s dont have issues. Our perspective on the forums is well skewed.

The shearing intake bolts seem to be an 05/06 issue as far as I have seen. Never seen an earlier car have issues, but maybe there has been. I've been paying attention for years now.

I don’t think the cam bolt issue is limited to 05/06 MY. I had a 2001 model. When I did VANOS two of the intake bolts were completely loose. This youtube dude has 2002 and was much worse than mine:

https://youtu.be/ctPE9Zg3Ov8

[Tbonem3]

Fair enough, can't dispute that. Not sure why all I've seen for like 10 years are late model cars. Thought maybe they changed the loctite at some point or something.

[sharadn]

Any idea on labor time to refresh the Vanos?

[George Hill]

My experiences:
1. Engine Failure - I have seen first hand an engine that failed from a broken tab. The tab fell out of the hub and got into the timing chain, it then rode the chain up to the exhaust cam gear where it wedged between the gear and chain this lifted the chain and broke the valve cover... it crossed over to the intake and did the same thing there too. It DID still run but it needed an oil pump disc, hub, all the gears, crank gear and a timing chain, so parts and labor wise the engine was essentially totaled (I think it had some bent valves but now I can't recall for sure). This was when I worked at the dealer, I ended up buying the car from the client, tore the engine down and refreshed it and swapped it into my first S54 touring swap.

2. Cam bolts - I've seen 200k+ mile engines with no issues and then I've seen a 39k engine have the bolts falling out. Awhile back someone suggested this was an 05/06 issue so I started watching for the cars that have the issue and other than the (2) noted in this thread it seemed like all the failures I saw were the later engines.

3. Exh hubs - Before Raj at Beisan Systems passed I asked him if he had any accounts of a tab breaking with a redrilled disc and he said that he had not heard of that. Considering the pool of engines he deals with that was good enough for me to say that a redrilled disc with a good OE hub was satisfactory. I'm aware of most (if not all) the aftermarket options and I think a stock hub on a redrilled disc is the most "solid" option. I keep hubs in stock for the times when we need them for customer cars. I just bought a bunch from a race team... lol




Interestingly all these hubs have a letter cast into them and aside from the (2) "R's" they are all different. Never really took notice of this before, anyone have any idea what that is in reference too? I assume its some kind of batch number or what not but don't know.

oceansize

[Advorsor]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

[Obioban]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

Unusual result, for a VAC product!

[jet_dogg]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

I think that's the route I'm going as well.

[Obioban]

I think that's the route I'm going as well.

...

why?

VAC is a shitty company that consistently makes/sells garbage. Their solution costs more than 4X a re-drilled pump disk, and is far less proven out (so more likely to have an issue). What would make you want to go this route?