S54 Dyno Database

[siamkazi]

Just got tuned - 330 WHP by HTE at EAS:

[smee123]

yeah they have themselves a good ole random number generator.

Dyno's are a tuning tool blah blah blah but i would advise anyone interested in seeing what their car makes to find a dynojet, as that seems to be the only consistent way remaining short of the black strip. Every tuner says their dyno is a heartbreaker and reads low they must goto the same school....lol

These other brand are dynos are good for tuning but operators can mess with a bunch of corrections to make them self look like gods when they are all just keyboard jockeys and there just isn't much to mess with to change the WOT output. There is no magic tuning where they magically unlock some previously undiscovered parameter. i mean a number of tuners or their customers have said they have calibrated their dynos to read same as a dynojet lol so they are just messing with corrections which makes numbers look better. I'm sure some aren't doing it to be deceitful.

Torque numbers are easily frigged if the rpm axis is wrong which it seems to be all too often on most brand dynos.

A bit late to the game but I thought I would clarify what is happening with their dynojet dyno. The winpep 7 boards fail and at this point the winpep 7 stack is considered a mature architecture so dynojet does not support it anymore. In the past they would fix them and they would send them on their way. Currently the only fix is them selling a winpep 8 stack to their customers. The issue with winpep 8 is that it has some sort of a calibration / scaling issue so the numbers are off. This is a well know problem unfortunately. The bigger name guys have already complained to dynojet, but there is no resolution as of yet.

[Anri]

DJ is not the best for actual tuning though

Hi Digger,

I agree its not the best but never forget "Close Enough Is The Enemy of Perfection"

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

Hi Digger,

Absolutely its a tool to tune and improve the power output. But what I meant is those magic HP numbers to be accurate
and not presented in a manipulated by a software...

Those who are very familiar with what an S54 should make whit specific parts and I see a number that does not match
then we know those numbers are brought via pure dyno falls 'Presentation'
Few pages back there is a guy who made I don't remember exact number but something like 360rwhp on a stock engine
we both know this is BS.

The Best HP for the Buck on std S54 is exhaust and good tune. That is were the major gains can be seen. You start adding
cams, box, map conversion, tons of labor involved, (speaking on std engine) and then gains are not as big but the money
are quadruple.....

Those who are not aware of need to be reminded that making power from 3.2 NA is expensive for sure.

Regards,
Anri

actually to be useful strictly speaking it just needs to be repeatable and scalable/proportionate. Ideally it would be accurate but they are measuring different things due to lack of ability to control all required variables. Probably they should work like an water brake engine dyno where the engine is braked momentarily at different rpms which minimises the influence of the unknown inertia. Most eddy current dynos can be used to create a steady state reading which should be the same with all similar dynos.

360rwhp on a Dyncom or DJ doesnt translate to other dyno types that's for sure. Atleast with a DJ you can be almost certain that none has manipulated it and comparison with other DJ has some actual meaning. Unfortunately the DJ is not the best for actual tuning though

[Anri]

The main purpose of chassis dyno is to apply a load to the engine and drivetrain for tuning and provided an measure of the power / torque / tractive effort output to be able to measure a change to optimise or improve output..

Hi Digger,

Absolutely its a tool to tune and improve the power output. But what I meant is those magic HP numbers to be accurate
and not presented and manipulated by a software...

Those who are very familiar with what an S54 should make whit specific parts and I see a number that does not match
then we know those numbers are brought via pure dyno falls 'Presentation'
Few pages back there is a guy who made I don't remember exact number but something like 360rwhp on a stock engine
we both know this is BS.

The Best HP for the Buck on std S54 is exhaust and good tune. That is were the major gains can be seen. You start adding
cams, box, map conversion, tons of labor involved, (speaking on std engine) and then gains are not as big but the money
are quadruple.....

Those who are not aware of, need to be reminded that making power from 3.2 NA is expensive for sure.

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

Hi Digger,

The main idea of all Chassis Dyno is to find their loses and equation of how each one calculates
the power from the engine to wheels. Ones this is determined then we will know what is the
actual losses in percent.

Let's look at the numbers you provided under your test. I assume the E46M3s are all stock on those
3 numbers correct ?

Factory DiN BMW AG rates the EU S54 343hp crank/BHP.

Say we take the number 243Maha RWHP an use this equation 343bhp-242rwhp=101 101 divide by 343bhp=0.29444 x 100 = 29.44%
drive train loss. Or the easier way is 343-29.44%=242rwhp.

So basically nothing wrong with Maha Dyno at almost 30% drive train losses. But I am not sure how the Maha software will transfer
the weather factor calibration which can be very tricky.

At 29.44% drive train loss this is absurd from any point of view..Say hypothetically we put Subaru 4x4 and what will be the
losses on 4 wheel drive car per Maha Dyno ? What almost 40% which is again fine on its own way.

The trick... That I assume fully blown race S54 which made 344 Maha RWHP ran on what type of fuel ?

Regards,
Anri

The main purpose of chassis dyno is to apply a load to the engine and drivetrain for tuning and provided an measure of the power / torque / tractive effort output to be able to measure a change to optimise or improve output.

I agree the actual losses are not anywhere near 30% or even a fixed % for RWD, manual transmission and street tyres. If Europeans didn't try and add some hocus pocus losses to get the crank numbers there would be one (1) less thing to argue about dynos and there enough already.

[S54B32]

The official crank HP from BMW for EU market cars at this time the car was release where per EWG norm. So corrected with this factor in the test environment.

I talked a yesterday with some Porsche guys, wo using MAHA dyno a bit more often. They said in their experience/conclusion MAHA dynos can not separate the inertia from drivetrain and the rollers in the shown whp figure. So „whp“ is with roller losses.
Because they said they see „big“ differences in whp figure from a single roller per wheel MAHA compared to another MAHA with two roller per wheel. The losses from where the tire contacts to the rollers are higher when 2 rolls touch the tire compared to one.

FYI The MAHA (LPS3000) I visited, was a AWD dyno with 2 rollers per wheel.

[Anri]

240, 242 and 259whp (all different machines) and a fully built engine 344whp just as a FYI

Hi Digger,

The main idea of all Chassis Dyno is to find their loses and equation of how each one calculates
the power from the engine to wheels. Ones this is determined then we will know what is the
actual losses in percent.

Let's look at the numbers you provided under your test. I assume the E46M3s are all stock on those
3 numbers correct ?

Factory DiN BMW AG rates the EU S54 343hp crank/BHP.

Say we take the number 243Maha RWHP an use this equation 343bhp-242rwhp=101 101 divide by 343bhp=0.29444 x 100 = 29.44%
drive train loss. Or the easier way is 343-29.44%=242rwhp.

So basically nothing wrong with Maha Dyno at almost 30% drive train losses. But I am not sure how the Maha software will transfer
the weather factor calibration which can be very tricky.

At 29.44% drive train loss this is absurd from any point of view..Say hypothetically we put Subaru 4x4 and what will be the
losses on 4 wheel drive car per Maha Dyno ? What almost 40% which is again fine on its own way.

The trick... That I assume fully blown race S54 which made 344 Maha RWHP ran on what type of fuel ?

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

If you read more about Dyno types and look at comparisons with same car on different dynos you will see that this is not the real WHP figure (aka Dynojet results). Maha dynos output very accurate Crank HP, but inaccurate WHP figures.

with 240 or 252 whp I would definitely be much slower on street, than it is in real life. I will try to get a dragy or P-gear and measure 100-200kmh / 60-130mph times.

ive used both Maha and and DJ in past years long time ago, i even tested same car within a couple days, the DJ was 5% higher peak whp, 10% higher in midrange but almost 15% at bottom end, .

i have collected Maha dyno data from 4 other e46 m3 (besides Martyn's) they are 240, 242 and 259whp (all different machines) and a fully built engine 344whp just as a FYI

you cant say the Maha whp is inaccurate for whp or it is not real as that's a fundamental to the calculation of crank hp. for sure you should look at the entire maha data.

For sure its fair to say comparing the whp of Maha to the whp of a dynojet is not particularly useful or meaningful as there are probably different algorithms mostly in the inertia terms /assumptions.

I see alot of dyno videos on some brands where the test takes all of 5 seconds, you can be sure its nonsense due to the unknown inertia which becomes important the faster the ramp rate / acceleration rate.

People say you should only compare deltas and the usual its a tuning tool etc etc but then they will contradict themselves and say those are nice numbers when there is only one (1) engine setup shown on the graph

[S54B32]

its says 244whp uncorrected which corrects to 252whp

If you read more about Dyno types and look at comparisons with same car on different dynos you will see that this is not the real WHP figure (aka Dynojet results). Maha dynos output very accurate Crank HP, but inaccurate WHP figures.

with 240 or 252 whp I would definitely be much slower on street, than it is in real life. I will try to get a dragy or P-gear and measure 100-200kmh / 60-130mph times.

[digger]

Tested today my streettune on a Maha dyno to check the work, sadly don‘t had the time to make a baseline run with stock software. Maha Dynos have here in Germany a very high reputation, even manufacturers (including BMW) use them. Only downside is, that they don‘t output „correctly“ WHP figures, only Crank Hp (corrected Crank HP with EWG like factory HP figures and not corrected Crank HP).
This was discussed previous with Martin on Page 2 or 3.

its says 244whp uncorrected which corrects to 252whp

[stash1]

^^^ Congrats, not super familiar w/the Maha dynos, but looks like a good running car regardless!

[S54B32]

Tested today my streettune on a Maha dyno to check the work, sadly don‘t had the time to make a baseline run with stock software. Maha Dynos have here in Germany a very high reputation, even manufacturers (including BMW) use them. Only downside is, that they don‘t output „correctly“ WHP figures, only Crank Hp (corrected Crank HP with EWG like factory HP figures and not corrected Crank HP).
This was discussed previous with Martin on Page 2 or 3.

Dyno Operator showed me a couple of other E46 m3 runs from his database, they were around 310-342 Crank HP corrected. And one dyno plot with a airbox, tune and not known other mods at around 360 Crank Hp corrected.
I think operator made a small mistake while synch rpm, because I set limiter at 8200 and dyno result‘s go a bit further. But estimated HP should be same.

my setup:
- complete Euro car
-freshly done Vanos and valveclearance
-CSL Software with MAP
-Karbonius with CSL Flap
-Viscofan delete (Spal)
-Muffler mod
-modded midpipe
-8200 limiter
-street tuned

Temp: 22-23°C ambient temp in Dynoroom and ECU measured 50°C intake Temp due heatsoak. After 3500rpm IAT normalized itself due airflow to 30°C.

Fuel: premium pump gas (Aral Ultimate 102 octane)

in the logs I see definitely more ignition retards in high rpm‘s (cylinder individual) compared to my street pulls. And I have to rework the area around 2000-2500rpm where I didn‘t spend time while street tune.

[NE///M3SIS]

373 KW is 500hp.
Custom VF engineering kit (modified intake + water Meth).
3.91 Diff
Fully built Vac Motor with CP pistons and HPF Crower Rods
ARP L19 studs and bolts.
Cometic Headgasket
Euro Stock Exhaust. No Cats

[stash1]

Recently got my street build on the RK-Tunes dyno for a custom Alpha-N tune. Mods:
- Karbonious CSL airbox
- 280 272 Cat cams
- SuperSprint V1 Header, SS Catted section 1, SS oversized resonated section 2, SCZA muffler
- TMS pulleys

After Jordan doing his thing we ended up with 350 WHP & 261 Torque. Pretty happy with that.

Nice build and results Rob! Thanx for posting man!