S54 Dyno Database

[/M3]

Is there any advantage of going from stock injectors to 550cc injectors on a pump gas only car? I have 272/280 cams, Turner air box and SS V1 headers with 2.5” exhaust going all the way to the muffler. Recently installed new factory injectors, new factory fuel pump, new fuel filter and new fuel pressure regulator.

Would upgrading the fuel pump or the injectors result in more power with these mods? I thought the factory fuel system was sufficient for N/A mods.

[stash1]

Looks like a very healthy high mileage M3, and thanx for contributing to the dyno thread!👍

[EthanolTurbo]

So in preparation for installing my new setup (SSv1s+63.5mm matching section 1 and 2+CSL Airbox), I finished tuning my current "basic" setup by jumping on the dyno at EAS. Since a lot of E46 M3s run on this dyno I thought it'd be a great opportunity to baseline this setup, compare to other M3s and see what the more advanced setup offers over the cheaper Euro headers and Eventuri intake.

Engine Mods:
Eventuri intake + upgraded intake elbow
Euro OEM headers
Bosch 550cc injectors
Walbro 485 fuel pump
Modded OEM section 1 (added AR20 resonator)
Supersprint section 2 resonated
Dixis Spirit titanium section 3
HTE E85 dyno tune
Engine mileage: 232k miles


Unfortunately it was breaking up a bit up top so we ended with 321 whp/250 wtq and Hassan suggested changing spark plugs and coils (since they've been beaten on for about 25k miles) and we would end up with about 330 whp. A stock E46 M3 dynos around 270-280 whp on this dyno so getting another 50-60whp over USDM stock with intake, Euro headers and E85 tune is really amazing for not a lot of dough. The midrange and top end vs a stock setup/tune M3 is night and day, while the low end feels stout and accessible.

I'm hoping to break 360 with the SSv1s + section 1 + section 2 twin tube and CSL airbox. Once I install all of that I'll head back to EAS in the next few weeks and do a full Alpha N retune. It is honestly mindblowing to me how much more power you can pull out of a 3.2L N/A setup with such simple modifications, especially one with 232k miles. Once I finish with Setup #2 I'll get some 280/272 cams and do one final retune.

Thanks for reading. 🤙 Big shoutout to Hassan at HTE for being a wealth of knowledge and support. If you need your M3 tuned, he is superb.

[digger]

Uumm, a lot of us do use “real tuners”, so not sure what the implication is there? And yeah, I kinda figured that the stand alone you’re running is well north of $3k…I was being a little conservative on purpose.😊 Again though, I was just wondering what parameters exactly your tuner changed to recoup the low end torque loss? AFR trims and timing are fairly easy to do w/a factory ECU…and 1/2 pt of fuel or a couple degrees of timing here or there aren’t going to recover that much torque. Of course there’s also cam timing to play with, but you can only compensate so much w/VANOS adj's.

These headers just don’t seem to flow well under 4k rpms, and every single graph that I’ve seen to date seems to reflect that…everyone is pulling fuel at low rpms. You can’t make power if the airflow isn’t there to support it.

there isn't much beside fuel quantity, injection timing, ignition timing, coil dwell, vanos inlet/exhaust positions, throttle position (i.e not going 100% at WOT), not much in the way of power in optimising per cylinder basis though less likely to burn the engine up from heat/knock. As you say there is only so much you can counter fundamental reversion issues via software changes.

[digger]

This is why you pay good $$ for a real tuner and a high end stand alone EMS. The one on the car with the dyno above is way more than $3k installed and tuned. You get what you pay for.

as for the other question about the mods, its a stock motor with airbox and the headers/exhaust that are listed. That's it.

T

You dont need an uber dollar ecu for a NA S54 that is mostly street driven. Tuning WOT is the easiest part to tune, there are only so many variables to change and optimise that actually affect torque/power. There is no magic / secrets with tuning that standalone brings to the table its just about how much experience the tuner has with each variable and how much time/$$$ the customer is prepared to pay to optimise everything as AFAIK the stock ECU gives you access to all parameters that are going to affect WOT but just in a more cumbersome way making the process less efficient than a aftermarket ECU. Personally i would go standalone so you aren't limited to a couple of tuners and in the long run it might be cheaper as many things can be DIY

All the other non WOT stuff is where the skill/time goes is and why keeping the OEM ecu has some fairly big advantages on a mild spec engine.

[stash1]

This is why you pay good $$ for a real tuner and a high end stand alone EMS. The one on the car with the dyno above is way more than $3k installed and tuned. You get what you pay for.

as for the other question about the mods, its a stock motor with airbox and the headers/exhaust that are listed. That's it.

T

Uumm, a lot of us do use “real tuners”, so not sure what the implication is there? And yeah, I kinda figured that the stand alone you’re running is well north of $3k…I was being a little conservative on purpose.😊 Again though, I was just wondering what parameters exactly your tuner changed to recoup the low end torque loss? AFR trims and timing are fairly easy to do w/a factory ECU…and 1/2 pt of fuel or a couple degrees of timing here or there aren’t going to recover that much torque. Of course there’s also cam timing to play with, but you can only compensate so much w/VANOS adj's.

These headers just don’t seem to flow well under 4k rpms, and every single graph that I’ve seen to date seems to reflect that…everyone is pulling fuel at low rpms. You can’t make power if the airflow isn’t there to support it.

[///Mangler]

Would your tuner mind sharing what he's done differently (tuning wise) w/the stand alone vs. modifying factory maps, to retain low-end torque? Also, keep in mind that a proper stand alone set up can run into the $3k plus range, and while it's pretty awesome...99.9% of folks will never go stand alone-for that reason.

This is why you pay good $$ for a real tuner and a high end stand alone EMS. The one on the car with the dyno above is way more than $3k installed and tuned. You get what you pay for.

as for the other question about the mods, its a stock motor with airbox and the headers/exhaust that are listed. That's it.

T

[ZiMMie]

Here is a quote and plot from my tuner. The loss of torque can be almost completely mitigated with a proper tune on a stand alone EMS.

"Make sure you have a pretty much open 3.5” exhaust, otherwise will lose huge power.

Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

What other mods does the car have?

[stash1]

Here is a quote and plot from my tuner. The loss of torque can be almost completely mitigated with a proper tune on a stand alone EMS.

"Make sure you have a pretty much open 3.5” exhaust, otherwise will lose huge power.

Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

Would your tuner mind sharing what he's done differently (tuning wise) w/the stand alone vs. modifying factory maps, to retain low-end torque? Also, keep in mind that a proper stand alone set up can run into the $3k plus range, and while it's pretty awesome...99.9% of folks will never go stand alone-for that reason.

[///Mangler]

Which curve is which?

Red is ARH

T

[duracellttu]

Here is a quote and plot from my tuner. The loss of torque can be almost completely mitigated with a proper tune on a stand alone EMS.

"Make sure you have a pretty much open 3.5” exhaust, otherwise will lose huge power.

Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

Which curve is which?

[///Mangler]

Hey Anri, I'm not 100% sure that they're actually even advertised as equal length or not-lol But yeah, as we all know now, it's a compromised design. Poor low-end performance w/some pretty good top-end w/the right tuning.😉

Here is a quote and plot from my tuner. The loss of torque can be almost completely mitigated with a proper tune on a stand alone EMS.

"Make sure you have a pretty much open 3.5” exhaust, otherwise will lose huge power.

Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

[DoubleSidedTape]

288/280 cams, Megan headers, everything else stock. Tuned by HTE.

[stash1]

Stan,

I have not seen the ARH in person to compare the length
of the tubes to other brand headers. The longer the better.
From pictures looks like they are equal length and that is
a good thing.

ARH did something a bit wrong and reason for 5k rpm
and up of operation.

Regards,
Anri.

Hey Anri, I'm not 100% sure that they're actually even advertised as equal length or not-lol But yeah, as we all know now, it's a compromised design. Poor low-end performance w/some pretty good top-end w/the right tuning.😉

[Anri]

Not sure if this has been posted in here, but here’s a recent dyno test of the ARH header system by Buildjournal:

https://thebuildjournal.com/reviews/...ts-and-review/

The data looks pretty consistent w/my own personal experience as well.

Stan,

I have not seen the ARH in person to compare the length
of the tubes to other brand headers. The longer the better.
From pictures looks like they are equal length and that is
a good thing.

ARH did something a bit wrong and reason for 5k rpm
and up of operation.

Regards,
Anri.