Best set of coil overs(or other options) for my M3 for my very specific needs?

[bigjae46]

My FCM setup was close to 6.5k with almost 20hrs of consulting and setup all said and done it is fucking amzazong and I'm needy AF

Can he work with any coilover or just his own?

Im assuming the $6.5k includes dampers, springs, mounts and all of the other small hardware?

[Cronenberged]

Can he work with any coilover or just his own?

Im assuming the $6.5k includes dampers, springs, mounts and all of the other small hardware?

Only Bilstein. Anyone who runs his set up is using the H&R street performance set up. He does not like to work with damper setting struts. You can pay just for his consulting and he'll help anyone set up their non Bilstein he just won't physically handle them.

[Cronenberged]

Is this pretty typical? $6.5k to realize flat ride nirvana?

I'm staring down the barrel of finally upgrading my suspension and will do it the right way. I just want to know what I'm in for.

Bit of a thread hijack so I can head over to some of the other flat ride/FCM threads with my questions, but it's definitely relevant for the OP.

I'm in 5.5k after purchasing the H&R kit and then having FCM build my set up and this after having the rears modified for to work with a clevis.

[thegenius46m]

Is this pretty typical? $6.5k to realize flat ride nirvana?

I'm staring down the barrel of finally upgrading my suspension and will do it the right way. I just want to know what I'm in for.

Bit of a thread hijack so I can head over to some of the other flat ride/FCM threads with my questions, but it's definitely relevant for the OP.

Flat ride is the spring rates. But if you want a truly optimized damper that has been 4 way valved set and forget config that is built to your specific car setup and needs and not some off the shelf marketing big name brand, then yeah that's about the cost after you factor in the coilover with springs and mounting hardware (camber plates and shock mounts, etc). I will tell you, I have never been happier.

[thegenius46m]

I'm in 5.5k after purchasing the H&R kit and then having FCM build my set up and this after having the rears modified for to work with a clevis.

Yeah dampers with the valving by fcm is about 5.5k. You then need swaybars, springs, camber plates, and rsms at the min to get everything installed so add another grand.

[thegenius46m]

Can he work with any coilover or just his own?

Im assuming the $6.5k includes dampers, springs, mounts and all of the other small hardware?

1.5k for the h&r coilover (he us literally just using this as a simple way to have bodies to mount to the car.) then 4k for labor. So 5.5k for fully optimized dampers that he is using the data you input on the flat ride sheet along with your stated usage for the car (street, track, dual purpose, strict racecar with aero etc) and then using all that to determine an optimal valving curve for your needs. I had A LOT of consulting and questions going in and he nailed this. The customer service, knowledge, and experience he has in this is bar none incredible. He doesn't get enough credit here because the bmw community is always hesitant to changes but this is one of those "wtf are you waiting for" things.

I also was a big fan that he's not spreading bullshit marketing to sell his product. His youtube channel is pretty good insight too. I didn't get paid a dime to state my inputs and they truly were how I felt.

He's diving into a bunch of platforms too now such as F87 M2, 997 gt3, miata, s2k etc.

https://www.youtube.com/@SuspensionTruth/videos

[EthanolTurbo]

1.5k for the h&r coilover (he us literally just using this as a simple way to have bodies to mount to the car.) then 4k for labor. So 5.5k for fully optimized dampers that he is using the data you input on the flat ride sheet along with your stated usage for the car (street, track, dual purpose, strict racecar with aero etc) and then using all that to determine an optimal valving curve for your needs. I had A LOT of consulting and questions going in and he nailed this. The customer service, knowledge, and experience he has in this is bar none incredible. He doesn't get enough credit here because the bmw community is always hesitant to changes but this is one of those "wtf are you waiting for" things.

I also was a big fan that he's not spreading bullshit marketing to sell his product. His youtube channel is pretty good insight too. I didn't get paid a dime to state my inputs and they truly were how I felt.

He's diving into a bunch of platforms too now such as F87 M2, 997 gt3, miata, s2k etc.

https://www.youtube.com/@SuspensionTruth/videos

I think you can use Bilstein PSS for $1kish to save a few hundred.

[Cronenberged]

I think you can use Bilstein PSS for $1kish to save a few hundred.

You can but he will not valve and service rebound adjustable struts. This all explained in the FCM threads.

[bigjae46]

.
1.5k for the h&r coilover (he us literally just using this as a simple way to have bodies to mount to the car.) then 4k for labor. So 5.5k for fully optimized dampers that he is using the data you input on the flat ride sheet along with your stated usage for the car (street, track, dual purpose, strict racecar with aero etc) and then using all that to determine an optimal valving curve for your needs. I had A LOT of consulting and questions going in and he nailed this. The customer service, knowledge, and experience he has in this is bar none incredible. He doesn't get enough credit here because the bmw community is always hesitant to changes but this is one of those "wtf are you waiting for" things.

I also was a big fan that he's not spreading bullshit marketing to sell his product. His youtube channel is pretty good insight too. I didn't get paid a dime to state my inputs and they truly were how I felt.

Oh...I totally agree. His spreadsheet gives a much different spring rate setup than what get from the biggest names in BMW tuning. In fact, I just had a facebook discussion where I mentioned FCM and sway bars. The response was "oh, well his concepts are good for racecars and purpose-built cars and his theories don't apply". I run 450/700 spring rates...WITH AERO...and most people flip when I tell them that. OMG...why would you do that?

Most of what he's recommending is far off generally accepted BMW tuning practices. The results speaks for itself, my track car is very comfortable to drive on the street and performs superbly on the track.

What I'm running into is I'm limited by my rear shocks. The TCK doubles can only handle 700lb springs. Ideally according to the FCM sheet, I should be at 350/700. I run 450 front so my splitter isn't scraping all of the time. I'd like to get to 500/900.

[Gt4]

For those tracking/racing their M3 with that FCM setup, how did your lap time improved?

Cause that’s what really matter on a dedicated track/race car, no one care about comfort unless maybe if you are doing 24h enduro.

[bigjae46]

For those tracking/racing their M3 with that FCM setup, how did your lap time improved?

Cause that’s what really matter on a dedicated track/race car, no one care about comfort unless maybe if you are doing 24h enduro.

A solid 2-3 seconds per lap on a track that is pretty bumpy and still finding time.

I’m about 1 second off NASA TT3 and ST3 lap records and I’m on Toyo RRs and not optimized for WT:HP. I’m sure all of the lap records were set on Hoosiers.

I’m running 50k mile/10 year old TC Klines which are almost worn out.

[Casa de Mesa]

Well that's definitely worth it, lol! 2 to 3 seconds is a massive improvement.

[thegenius46m]

I think you can use Bilstein PSS for $1kish to save a few hundred.

H&R coilover was $1300 and yes he can use either as he just needs the bodies and the piston. Everything else from there is bespoke after he guts the dampers.

[thegenius46m]

Oh...I totally agree. His spreadsheet gives a much different spring rate setup than what get from the biggest names in BMW tuning. In fact, I just had a facebook discussion where I mentioned FCM and sway bars. The response was "oh, well his concepts are good for racecars and purpose-built cars and his theories don't apply". I run 450/700 spring rates...WITH AERO...and most people flip when I tell them that. OMG...why would you do that?

Most of what he's recommending is far off generally accepted BMW tuning practices. The results speaks for itself, my track car is very comfortable to drive on the street and performs superbly on the track.

What I'm running into is I'm limited by my rear shocks. The TCK doubles can only handle 700lb springs. Ideally according to the FCM sheet, I should be at 350/700. I run 450 front so my splitter isn't scraping all of the time. I'd like to get to 500/900.

Yeah you've been around as long or longer than me and know very well that "generally accepted bmw tuning practices" are BULLSHIT and flat out wrong! The moment I went to flat ride with the old mcs dampers while everyone on the old forum was skeptical, the ride quality drastically improved, the grip to compliance ratio also improved greatly. That and my laguna time dropped 2-3 seconds from just the springs. Went from 750/850 to 425/850 springs on MCS 2WNR.

Now go with my FCM setup where I kept the spring rates the same just to see how drastic a damper setup changed the car and holy crap its what I thought I was buying into with a "motorsport damper" from all the "tried and true accepted" bmw setups everyone preaches based off marketing hype more than data that justifies it. I'm over the days of buying into things off opinions. Let me experience it and/or give me the data to justify the claims at the minimum and then I'll make a logical purchasing decision.

Not only did the FCM setup make the compliance to grip ratio on another level of what the MCS 2WNR setup was with the same spring rates, but two of the biggest improvements I noticed right away on when pushing the car on bumpy backroads is how fast the car settles from bumps and how unphased the ABS is now when hitting bumps under threshold braking. Before with the MCS and an MK60, if I hit a bump when threshold braking or close to it the abs system would panic and the car would get unsettled and just be sketchy. With the FCM setup this is no longer a thing. I can just focus on driving because the suspension is doing its job to control the chassis so everything else can do its intended job. I talked to Shaikh first hand about this and outside of non ideal valving, a big one was the gas pressure being too high on the MCS 2WNR so anytime you hit a bump even with flat ride spring, the damper would jerk the car because it takes so much more gas force for the damper to even start moving compared to say an FCM damper that opens much earlier and still can handle the optimal high spring rates you need for flat ride.

With the old setup I stopped driving the car on backroads or anything bumpy for years because "the car couldn't handle it" and just drove smooth tracks which is kinda fake because even a racecar needs to be able to handle bumps and curbing at triple digit speeds. For testing, I have two buddies I independently took as passenger during all these changes so I could have a second opinion of feedback just to make it interesting. I went from not really driving backroads to "lets find the worst condition backroad in the area and see if I can upset the car." Well that last part, we haven't found a backroad that the car didn't work reasonably when pushing the car. That's impressive!

All in all, I truly love the FCM and can't wait to get back to the track once my health improves and really see what it can do. The limit is so high on the street I'm already going to jail trying to reach it hahaha.

But listen to this video from Ryan at Performance Eurowerks who races W2W for PE and hear what he has to say after moving from MCS 3 way to FCM. I texted Alex before committing and he said "the FCM stuff is indeed legit."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szZvQaQVnSI&t=608s

I am super excited that more and more people are finally listening to Shaikh's principles and seeing for themselves that this flat ride stuff is not bs and really is a game changer if put in the time to dial in the car. People just need to open their eyes because Shaikh is WAY under appreciated in my eyes.

Lastly, I got asked "but your paying 6k for no adjustment knobs." Well you know what... that was a selling point to me because you're paying a qualified suspension engineer to optimize 4 way dampening curves and chassis setup to as close to what you will be using your specific car for so you dont have to keep playing with knobs and require a suspension engineer to be in the paddock with you for every adjustment because that in itself requires data to justify changes that the average joe is just guessing. With FCM for instance, I pay Shaikh to figure it out for my needs and the dampening, (arguably the most complex part of car setup) is done and I can focus on chassis balance through less complicated variables such as spring rates, chassis rake, bump stops, swaybars, camber, toe, tire pressure, etc.

[Casa de Mesa]

Lastly, I got asked "but your paying 6k for no adjustment knobs." Well you know what... that was a selling point to me because you're paying a qualified suspension engineer to optimize 4 way dampening curves and chassis setup to as close to what you will be using your specific car for so you dont have to keep playing with knobs and require a suspension engineer to be in the paddock with you for every adjustment because that in itself requires data to justify changes that the average joe is just guessing. With FCM for instance, I pay Shaikh to figure it out for my needs and the dampening, (arguably the most complex part of car setup) is done and I can focus on chassis balance through less complicated variables such as spring rates, chassis rake, bump stops, swaybars, camber, toe, tire pressure, etc.

So what you're saying is, if you had to do it all over again, you'd end up with BC Racing coilovers. Got it.

Appreciate the detailed post. Out of more curiosity, does Shaikh steer you towards a higher ride height rather than lower? The pic of your car (sig line) is lower than I would have expected. Don't get me wrong - it's badass looking - but I'm curious if this comes into play at all and to what degree. Another hotly contested topic is ride height, so just curious if he analyzes suspension curves as part of this stuff.

Happy New Year!

EDIT: I've spent the last hour reading up on FCM. There is no way ride height does not come into the equation.