why is E85 still in our petrol supply

[jbfrancis3]

What a horrendous thread. If its gonna sink why not sink it to the bottom.

The ethanol, which is alcohol, has two downsides in our applications: 1) attracting water and 2) causing elastomers to swell to a varying degree depending on the which of the many formulations is in use.

Ethanol does not cause clogging of carburetors: the gumming or varnishing as its often described as is due to olefines in modern fuel blends. Separately, the aromates also have a negative effect on elastomers. Those two items have positive attributes as well, mind you.

Everyone is pulling ethanol out of complex formulation and saying that it making or breaking the case. Some of the modern formulation is attributable to addition of ethanol but many aspects are not.

[Arith2]

I'm sure AFD would love to be known as a "hack". Since I don't have a carb and don't sit my car for months at a time, and yes, I still run Techron through occasionally, I seem just fine. Bash all you want.

I don't think it's meant as a bashing, it's just that a hack would be something incomplete and a quick work around. He isn't wrong. You are taxing your fuel system much harder. It's just a fact. If you upgrade your injectors, and tune for them, you will probably see a slight power gain because the injectors will run much cooler. I'm glad your system hasn't failed but you're on borrowed time. If your fuel system was going to last 30 years hypothetically, it may last only 20 or 25 years. Nothing is changed but the kit on your fuel system?

[mrgizmo04]

I'm similar to Jimbo in that I run max ~E50 by mixing 91 with "E85". Have had AFD kit for just under 2 years, running stock injectors and fuel pump (refreshed from FCP about 2 years ago prior to getting AFD).

As I'm thinking of doing cams (which have been sitting in my garage) I am debating if I want to take the plunge and have to upgrade injectors/fuel pump and get a new tune since I have a few E85 gas stations within 5-10miles from my house.

[heinzboehmer]

I'm similar to Jimbo in that I run max ~E50 by mixing 91 with "E85". Have had AFD kit for just under 2 years, running stock injectors and fuel pump (refreshed from FCP about 2 years ago prior to getting AFD).

As I'm thinking of doing cams (which have been sitting in my garage) I am debating if I want to take the plunge and have to upgrade injectors/fuel pump and get a new tune since I have a few E85 gas stations within 5-10miles from my house.

Had the same setup for about a year and then my fuel pump died, so now that's upgraded. Plan on upgrading injectors when I do cams/headers/dyno tune.

[digger]

Ethanol is slightly cleaner and more renewable. E85 is a great fuel for high performance engines but does have drawbacks

[Ob917]

It smells waaaaaaay better.

[Tbonem3]

Ethanol is slightly cleaner and more renewable. E85 is a great fuel for high performance engines but does have drawbacks

Can you give your opinion of whether you think it's ultimately worth it or not, long term, to run a mix of around E50-60 for a sustained period of time?

I wonder if there are additives (snake oils ) that would help lube seals or remove moisture. I know there are some products out there like that, fuel stabil etc

[Arith2]

Can you give your opinion of whether you think it's ultimately worth it or not, long term, to run a mix of around E50-60 for a sustained period of time?

I wonder if there are additives (snake oils ) that would help lube seals or remove moisture. I know there are some products out there like that, fuel stabil etc

I've read the stabilizers actually work in school. I'm not sure how they'd work but my school doesn't suggest additives at all otherwise. That may be a promising endeavor. Lucas is a sponsor and the king of snake oils and they don't suggest any of it. It's really only a big deal if the car sits for a few weeks or live somewhere humid. I've never been to Cali but I understand it doesn't get very humid there. Florida is a nightmare. It was 80 degrees last night and I was drenched in sweat as soon as walking through the door.

[Jimbo's M]

Nothing is changed but the kit on your fuel system?

That's all. However, the fuel pump was only a couple years old when the E85 kit was installed.

[Jimbo's M]

Can you give your opinion of whether you think it's ultimately worth it or not, long term, to run a mix of around E50-60 for a sustained period of time?

As I said, I'm coming up on 16 months and have had no issues whatsoever. With that, I do live in a very dry climate as well. Take it for what it's worth...

[digger]

Can you give your opinion of whether you think it's ultimately worth it or not, long term, to run a mix of around E50-60 for a sustained period of time?

I wonder if there are additives (snake oils ) that would help lube seals or remove moisture. I know there are some products out there like that, fuel stabil etc

i recall seeing that for a high performance engine E40 from the pump was almost as effective as dedicated E85 (VP C85) for gains it provided like 80% of the gains on a vortech LS. Its not a NA engine not sure if it.d work the same

I dont know anything about additives to lessen the impacts on ethanol based fuel

[Tbonem3]

I've heard similar, which is nice; closer to the e10 we have now which means to me that perhaps, at that mixture, there might not be big enough, long term issues to worry about.

There are some products that remove moisture from fuel (marine and others) with ethanol. Maybe that would help too. Does any one have thoughts on that? Or on longevity issues of like e40-e60 mix? Not injectors or pump life, but effect on rubber/plastic/etc

[Obioban]

What a horrendous thread. If its gonna sink why not sink it to the bottom.

The ethanol, which is alcohol, has two downsides in our applications: 1) attracting water and 2) causing elastomers to swell to a varying degree depending on the which of the many formulations is in use.

Ethanol does not cause clogging of carburetors: the gumming or varnishing as its often described as is due to olefines in modern fuel blends. Separately, the aromates also have a negative effect on elastomers. Those two items have positive attributes as well, mind you.

Everyone is pulling ethanol out of complex formulation and saying that it making or breaking the case. Some of the modern formulation is attributable to addition of ethanol but many aspects are not.

How’s this:
Lawn equipment I’ve run on ethanol free gas from new remains flawless. Lawn equipment I’ve run on E10 or E15 degrades. If that’s the ethanol itself or additives they put in the gas to make the ethanol viable doesn’t really matter to me— if I want to keep yard stuff working like new long term, I bend over backwards (go on a 3 hour trip once a year to buy) to run them exclusively on ethanol free gas.

[mrgizmo04]

I've heard similar, which is nice; closer to the e10 we have now which means to me that perhaps, at that mixture, there might not be big enough, long term issues to worry about.

There are some products that remove moisture from fuel (marine and others) with ethanol. Maybe that would help too. Does any one have thoughts on that? Or on longevity issues of like e40-e60 mix? Not injectors or pump life, but effect on rubber/plastic/etc

Project Farm has some interesting videos. There is definitely effect, but that is if sitting or constantly being submerged (this video was 9 months of sitting).

https://youtu.be/UvS_D4_lF5U

[Obioban]

Project Farm has some interesting videos. There is definitely effect, but that is if sitting or constantly being submerged (this video was 9 months of sitting).

https://youtu.be/UvS_D4_lF5U

This is doing nothing to make me like ethanol more