Brake Line Real Talk

[cobra]

It is a common upgrade to go to stainless braided brake lines for better feel, but how much of this is actually warranted on our cars?

Here are some of my thoughts:
-The factory lines are not simply "rubber", but thick, fiber reinforced lines that probably don't flex that much in reality.
-Factory lines are temperature resistant, flexible, and durable.
-There is huge variation in the manufacturing of aftermarket stainless braided brake lines as it's a very manual process. Quality varies from brand to brand.
-How often do you hear about original brake lines failing vs aftermarket lines leaking, corroding, or degrading in some way? In my experience, OE line failure is zero, and Aftermarket is non-zero.

The reason I was thinking about this is my car has 100k miles and I am rebuilding my brake calipers with new seals and boots. Is the brake line a lifetime item? Is going to stainless lines an "upgrade" or actually a downgrade? I have zero complaints about brake feel or fade for my use case.

Discuss.

[Tbonem3]

I've been saying this. It was only E36 era where the lines would expand much iirc, not E46. Our lines are fine, you just happen to run fancier SS lines when you get a BBK, and that's more for fitment reasons.

Same thing's true for the OE FTE clutch line, plus the run is so short - only about a foot to 14" or so.

Other than HEL lines, the SS lines people are buying from BW, ECS, Turner, FCP, garagistic, et al are made in china bare minimum stuff. I just spent $90 on one set of HEL front lines because I don't trust whatever Rallyroad or Creations uses for their 996 conversion lines (I already got HEL for the rear).

SS lines belong in the same category as wheel studs and unsealed monoball joints - NOT an improvement on OE.

[Obioban]

I'd stick with stock lines if you can (stock calipers).

[heinzboehmer]

Agreed, stock is great. They're cheap to replace too if the rubber on yours is starting to deteriorate.

A bit of topic, but where did you buy the HEL lines for the 996 calipers Tbonem3? I too don't fully trust the random fancy colored brake lines offered by most vendors. Is this what you bought?

Front: https://creationsmotorsport.com/car-...ines-2447.html
Rear: https://creationsmotorsport.com/pors...ines-2448.html

[Tbonem3]

Yep. But I bought them from another British vendor on ebay, addiction_motorsports_ltd. Shipped, after conversion, it came to about $90. Creations was charging a little more when I ordered last week.

[heinzboehmer]

Cool, thanks!

[maw1124]

You tell me this AFTER I put the cheap Chinesium on my car... Thanks Fellas.



maw

[bmwfnatic]

I've been saying this. It was only E36 era where the lines would expand much iirc, not E46. Our lines are fine, you just happen to run fancier SS lines when you get a BBK, and that's more for fitment reasons.

Same thing's true for the OE FTE clutch line, plus the run is so short - only about a foot to 14" or so.

Other than HEL lines, the SS lines people are buying from BW, ECS, Turner, FCP, garagistic, et al are made in china bare minimum stuff. I just spent $90 on one set of HEL front lines because I don't trust whatever Rallyroad or Creations uses for their 996 conversion lines (I already got HEL for the rear).

SS lines belong in the same category as wheel studs and unsealed monoball joints - NOT an improvement on OE.

Good call, the RR lines kinda failed on me, rubber grommet came off, line started to rub through, I caught it in time when I had the car on the lift, but could've been bad. Switched to HEL since.

[elbert]

Good call, the RR lines kinda failed on me, rubber grommet came off, line started to rub through, I caught it in time when I had the car on the lift, but could've been bad. Switched to HEL since.

Oof. Crap, yet another thing to add to my "to be replaced" list

[nahvkolaj]

I installed BW stainless lines at the same time I did a pad and rotor replacement and flush. The feel is great. Not sure if the lines contribute significantly.

Edit: thinking about this more, my Z3 is just as good with OE lines. Were I to do it again I probably would just go OE on the M3. The fitment (grommets, hardpoint attachments) is better with stock lines.

[George Hill]

Other than HEL lines, the SS lines people are buying from BW, ECS, Turner, FCP, garagistic, et al are made in china bare minimum stuff.

BW makes their lines in house, well I'll assume they do because they make their clutch lines in house, why they wouldn't brake lines at that point IDK. I know this because I have ordered custom clutch lines and parts from them.

The front lines predominantly like to rot the outer sheathing of rubber, I replace them all the time.

StopTech used to be our go to, never had an issue and reasonably priced compared to OE but they are pretty much NLA at this point. I will say all of the SS lines like to pop out of the strut holder, so I usually back them up with a zip tie.

With the ST issue we don't have a solid one size fits all solution anymore.

But I've never replaced these lines with SS and had the idea we are "fixing" a pedal feel problem, its either cost or potential durability that drives the result.

[Casa de Mesa]

I'd go stock too. If for no other reason than they are designed to clear wheels, struts, swaybars and all other potential areas where they could otherwise rub. Rubbing = eventual holes in the lines. I unfortunately learned that lesson the hard way on the race track.

Whenever I go aftermarket lines (because BBK), I now always double zip tie to prevent rubbing and completely isolate the line. I then check and recheck suspension articulation, turning the front wheels to full lock, etc. to make sure nothing is rubbing.

By double zip tie, I mean something like this pic below. This is 5 zip ties rather than just 2, but you get the idea.

[dukeofchen]

A bit confused by the different responses here – if OE rubber lines do not expand much when new, then is the common suggestion that SS lines improve feel simply based on the comparison to the old, worn out rubber lines they usually replace?

And if that is the case, then my next question is: aside from the mode of complete failure due to inferior design / manufacturing of specific brands, do SS lines provide any benefit in terms of degradation over time that rubber lines present?

[cobra]

A bit confused by the different responses here – if OE rubber lines do not expand much when new, then is the common suggestion that SS lines improve feel simply based on the comparison to the old, worn out rubber lines they usually replace?

And if that is the case, then my next question is: aside from the mode of complete failure due to inferior design / manufacturing of specific brands, do SS lines provide any benefit in terms of degradation over time that rubber lines present?

My only reference point is when I replaced the front brake lines on my motorcycle, which use a similar construction to our OE lines. The only difference is they are about 3 feet long and I have a more direct tactile feel with my finger than with a foot in a car. I could tell more of a difference from bleeding the brakes than I could from going to SS lines. I replaced them because I put on different calipers with a different mounting angle of the banjo.

Through my job industry, I have had some pretty detailed exposure to brake line manufacturing and it has actually made me shy away from them a bit. As I mentioned in the OP, there are so many variables so QC is very important. I would trust OE braided lines and OE rubber lines a lot more than aftermarket braided lines.

I don't think the SS lines provide any benefit other than appearance, lower weight, and added stiffness.

My question is... if the brake lines look good on the outside, do they eventually fatigue or wear out near the crimps from the suspension flexing? Should they be replaced preventatively?

[Casa de Mesa]

My question is... if the brake lines look good on the outside, do they eventually fatigue or wear out near the crimps from the suspension flexing? Should they be replaced preventatively?

In my experience... yes. But it depends on the application. If the car is tracked heavily, it becomes a timeout item to a certain degree. If the outside sheathing starts to look at all sketch, I replace everything / all flexible lines at the same time. Any marginal amount of cracking, splitting, fraying and it's into the garbage bin.

That said, that's in a race application where everything is accelerated. It's also because I've experienced sudden catastrophic brake failure due to improper maintenance on my part... so this isn't a backed-by-science answer. With what you do for a living, I'd think you likely know when to replace lines due to any of the reasons I mentioned.

Edit: that last line wasn't meant as a dig, but a vote of confidence 🙂