THE M3 IS GETTING THE ANRI BUILD TREATMENT - Blown headgasket to build thread

[Epoustouflant]

Wow $6k sounds crazy

The S54 blocks are tanks. Unless the head gasket has been blown for a long time, the block is likely fine. Head might be a pitted, but a skim should take care of it. Agreed that you should be able to get away with just doing the head gasket.

Just drive up to norcal and we'll have it swapped out in a weekend

ChapterM3 this is very accurate.

I've just gone through this with my 190,000km (120,000 miles) S54. The bottom end of these things are extremely stout and the rotating assembly is the least of our concerns.

Pull the engine, and get the block and head sent out to the machine shop to match and be on your way! You can get this done in a day with friends at a local DIY shop in the LA area.

The only while in there I would consider are upgrades to the heads and valve adjustments, ah! If you haven't done VANOS and rod bearings, it's a good time as well.

Head work can do a lot of good if you plan on adding CSL airbox, headers and cams down the road. New valve springs, rockers, valve seals are a good idea ... that I didn't even bother with outside of new rocker arms.

Best of success in the journey. It'll make it all the more fun when it's back on the road.

[Anri]

if the car is going to start blowing gaskets every season I'd start to get concerned. Side note - I drive the car about 5k a year
It's a good point you raise Anri for sure. I'll DM you about quotes on this work for the car. Thank you for your replies!

Johnathan,

You should be aware of 2 factors from the many but in the S54 deck area

blowing gaskets every season

Design: S54 bore grew a step further up to 87mm compared to S50B32 Euro
at 86.4mm. This is one of the reasons BMW Motorsport was forced to use multi layer
gasket in order to seal the reduced bore spacing. A std S50-B32 gasket would
not work well with reduced bore spacing.


Cast iron block aluminum head creates undesirable phenomenal called Electrolysis.
and I am sure your coolant was not replaced on time to keep this down to minimal
and at (155k) I am sure you have some damage on the surface. It's just how much and
were it is ? if its not near the water jackets, oiling, bore spacing surface then you are
fine.

When you have the cylinder gasket burned in this way you already have torched the
block surface with flames cross flowing(hopefully its not much) . Every inline 6 engine
it does not matter the brand they are never ever flat all across. There is acceptable
number were if you pass that it is critical to deck the block on S54. Older S50B32
S14 S38 the gasket is not multi layer and it is very forgiving and can take a lot of deck
imperfections but not with S54s.

At last never forget taking the engine apart is nothing special, its all bolts and nuts
out but the Machining is the most important part to have long lasting engine platform.

Whoever you chose to work on your S54 make sure you are aware of technically
the entire process. Things like "we will fix it don't worry" be aware of...people
like cobra and others are terrified to have others working on their car and that is
when I meant these M cars need special attention to detail.

BMW M engines/owners we are all very picky and the work must be done with passion,
understanding how it works, experience, etc, not just the following shop car number...


Regards,
Anri

[ChapterM3]

ChapterM3 this is very accurate.

I've just gone through this with my 190,000km (120,000 miles) S54. The bottom end of these things are extremely stout and the rotating assembly is the least of our concerns.

Pull the engine, and get the block and head sent out to the machine shop to match and be on your way! You can get this done in a day with friends at a local DIY shop in the LA area.

The only while in there I would consider are upgrades to the heads and valve adjustments, ah! If you haven't done VANOS and rod bearings, it's a good time as well.

Head work can do a lot of good if you plan on adding CSL airbox, headers and cams down the road. New valve springs, rockers, valve seals are a good idea ... that I didn't even bother with outside of new rocker arms.

Best of success in the journey. It'll make it all the more fun when it's back on the road.

Thank you for your input! I appreciate it - So to summarize what you're saying here, and questions:
- Pull the motor, do bottom and top at the same time (Do cylinders and rings as well?)
- I've done rod bearings 25k ago, and Vanos full Dr. Vanos kit 20k ago
- I don't plan on doing anything like a CSL airbox, or headers or cams. If the cats go on the stock headers in there I'll get another set of stock ones, and if I pull the motor perhaps I'll do it at the same time.I want the motor to be OEM and OEM+ where it makes sense to do it. So valve springs, (Valves?), rockers and valve seals for the head all make sense to me.
- Do you know of a DIY garage in LA that would be able to have the car for as much time as I need to get the head done?

A big question since reading your post is how could I tell if the cylinders are OK before pulling the head? Perhaps have the shop look into the spark plug holes before putting them back in? (Car is still apart until they get back to it on Tuesday)

Thanks in advance for your responses!

Johnathan,

You should be aware of 2 factors from the many but in the S54 deck area


Design: S54 bore grew a step further up to 87mm compared to S50B32 Euro
at 86.4mm. This is one of the reasons BMW Motorsport was forced to use multi layer
gasket in order to seal the reduced bore spacing. A std S50-B32 gasket would
not work well with reduced bore spacing.


Cast iron block aluminum head creates undesirable phenomenal called Electrolysis.
and I am sure your coolant was not replaced on time to keep this down to minimal
and at (155k) I am sure you have some damage on the surface. It's just how much and
were it is ? if its not near the water jackets, oiling, bore spacing surface then you are
fine.

When you have the cylinder gasket burned in this way you already have torched the
block surface with flames cross flowing(hopefully its not much) . Every inline 6 engine
it does not matter the brand they are never ever flat all across. There is acceptable
number were if you pass that it is critical to deck the block on S54. Older S50B32
S14 S38 the gasket is not multi layer and it is very forgiving and can take a lot of deck
imperfections but not with S54s.

At last never forget taking the engine apart is nothing special, its all bolts and nuts
out but the Machining is the most important part to have long lasting engine platform.

Whoever you chose to work on your S54 make sure you are aware of technically
the entire process. Things like "we will fix it don't worry" be aware of...people
like cobra and others are terrified to have others working on their car and that is
when I meant these M cars need special attention to detail.

BMW M engines/owners we are all very picky and the work must be done with passion,
understanding how it works, experience, etc, not just the following shop car number...


Regards,
Anri

Thank you again for your input on this - Do you have any suggestions on where to read about this entire process as you mentioned? I want to understand it but not finding many articles or videos explaining it - if you have some suggestions I would appreciate it! Thank you!

[sapote]

[UPDATE - F***ing Head gasket is blown cyl 5-6, see page 2 for the full report.

I didn't expect that the gasket blown between 5 and 6. Then why engine didn't knock (detonate or rattle can noise) at above 2000 rpm?

[Anri]

I didn't expect that the gasket blown between 5 and 6. Then why engine didn't knock (detonate or rattle can noise) at above 2000 rpm?

Sapote,

The heat on any Inline-6 is concentrated in the 4-5-6 or Bank-2 so
yes those are the one to let go first and then 1-2-3 Bank-1
Those S54s who have this problem engine ran hot most of the time.
Owners never check the 20 years old Behr fan clutch resulting very
late engagement or not even engaging and the engine runs from the
AC vario speed fan. Do you know how many E46M3s I have worked
on and the fan clutch is not working and owners did not even know...
and slowly killing the head gasket.

On all of my customers cars I have updated flan clutch which engages
earlier. Behr fan engages way to late and the AC fan is the one to cool
down, you dont want that. You want the Fan clutch to engage and
cool the engine down...AC fan is to help only in emergency with AC
on and you are stuck in traffic...One of my tricks I used at our track
M3 I had 460mm fan blade from S62/M60 adapted...with another
trick fan clutch (not Behr) and the AC fan will barely move here and
there.....

On the track toy E46M3 with updated cooling syterm etc, 3250lb with
half a tank etc. Car was purchased from the original owner at 140k.
We abused this car so much at the race track and never had gasket
issues. Engine was running like champ. 3 people we were abusing
the car at the track very heavy. I had to upgrade the cooling system on the
car because with OEM system at 90F outside with 4.10 and we push
hard for lap times the engine will start to get hot after 4 very hard lap then
cool down laps.We knew the history of the car since day 1 so how come at
after this massive track abuse miles head gasket was not burned ?
So do on few other cars with hi miles I know of.

I guarantee you that most shops do replace the water pump with
after market one which is downgrade!!!!. You should know by now
the life span on OEM pump is around 80-100k miles and every mile
over its a Gift till you find the impeller pieces in the block head as
you know what happen with the last S54 engine I rebuild.

In regards of the detonation, not necessarily to ping so you can hear
it. If the gasket has small crack during the cycles not all of the hot air
will cross flow to create excessive heat in and detonate.

The Domestic says "if ain't broken don't fix it" does not work well...

Heat baby heat...

Regards
Anri

[sapote]

In regards of the detonation, not necessarily to ping so you can hear
it. If the gasket has small crack during the cycles not all of the hot air
will cross flow to create excessive heat in and detonate.

This makes sense, and I'm interested to see OP's report on how bad the head gasket burned gap at 5 and 6.

[dukeofchen]

On all of my customers cars I have updated flan clutch which engages
earlier. Behr fan engages way to late and the AC fan is the one to cool
down, you dont want that. You want the Fan clutch to engage and
cool the engine down...AC fan is to help only in emergency with AC
on and you are stuck in traffic...One of my tricks I used at our track
M3 I had 460mm fan blade from S62/M60 adapted...with another
trick fan clutch (not Behr) and the AC fan will barely move here and
there.....

What is the part no. for the upgraded fan clutch that you replace it with? And do you use it regardless of application (street/track)?

[ChapterM3]

Anri thank you for the call today! I so appreciate the conversation - I'll be following up with you later today.

One question that popped into my mind - why would I have codes pop up for cylinder 3,4 and 5, when 5 and 6 came back with the issue? Could this be a stuck valve? or perhaps the leak down was performed incorrectly on 5 and 6?

[Pklauser]

Very interesting to hear your take on the Behr clutch Anri. I recently replaced mine with a brand new Behr, and it actually does seem a little lazy to me. My electric fan runs much more now than it did before. It's unclear to me if BMW designed the system as e-fan-first, with the clutch as the failsafe, or the other way around. It sounds as if you think the e-fan is the failsafe.

[sapote]

It's unclear to me if BMW designed the system as e-fan-first, with the clutch as the failsafe, or the other way around. It sounds as if you think the e-fan is the failsafe.

Engine needs both. The clutch fan is to off load the efan which is the primary unit if the twos - without the efan engine will overheat; without the clutch fan, the efan should keep the engine alive in most situation but might need to turn off AC in a very hot day and high load. Also, without the clutch fan the efan works in high duty cycle and dies earlier.

[Anri]

What is the part no. for the upgraded fan clutch that you replace it with? And do you use it regardless of application (street/track)?

Hi,

Tricks how to improve the system in every area is something I usually
don't like to share online but in the name to help the community here we go.
The Fan clutch I use is from E36M3 which fits all M50 engine family
and the brand is Sachs part number 11 52 7 505 302. (I have another
more aggressive custom option but will shorten the life span of the water pump
by a bit but that is for heavy duty applications).


The Sachs engages right above the thermostat means the second the
T stat opens at 80C and pushes the water circle inline the fan clutch engages
immediately and keeps the engine from heat soaking and will shut down
aprox ~68C, and the cycle continues.

Behr fan clutch will engage at around ~93-98C and will shut around at ~85-88..
The vario electrical fan engage earlier and this make the system to work
reverse which is terrible idea!

The reason why it works reverse is because Owners don't like the noise
can you believe this? but its the reality...and I will example. On E34M5 the
system works reverse as on the E46M3 The system is designed to work
only on the fan clutch cycles. The E.Fan has 2 speed low and hi. Low speed
engages at 91C and the hi speed engages at 99C.

The E34M5 owners do complain all the time from this very loud and pronounce
noise. Every generation BMW do improve in noise and why BMW decided to
do reverse and if the fan goes bad because works all the time Buy New one.

The E.Fan DB is more quiet than the 420mm fan deep blade. BMW 420mm Fan
was first introduced in E32/E34 chassis and used till the last car rolled out with mechanical
fan from the factory. (V8 engines same design but its 460mm instead of 420mm).

A very important note I want to make here: installing this Sachs will increase the
cycles and the Fan Blade must be replaced with Brand New Factory Part never
ever use Febi or any other brand. I even can smell the plastic and define which
one is which !!!!
You don't want to be one of those owners who are "if aint broken dont fix it" and one
day under hard driving conditions the 20years old Cooked-Plastic one of the
blades will let go and your aluminum hood will see a hole! Replace per my suggestion
and you are good for another 100k.

Yes on the track/street. If you are very aggressive driver on the track race agains
the clock as I do personally then it will be a point were the system will max out due
other factors which is for another chapter/subject.

Regards,
Anri

[ZiMMie]

Hi,

Tricks how to improve the system in every area is something I usually
don't like to share online but in the name to help the community here we go.
The Fan clutch I use is from E36M3 which fits all M50 engine family
and the brand is Sachs part number 11 52 7 505 302. (I have another
more aggressive custom option but will shorten the life span of the water pump
by a bit but that is for heavy duty applications).


The Sachs engages right above the thermostat means the second the
T stat opens at 80C and pushes the water circle inline the fan clutch engages
immediately and keeps the engine from heat soaking and will shut down
aprox ~68C, and the cycle continues.

Behr fan clutch will engage at around ~93-98C and will shut around at ~85-88..
The vario electrical fan engage earlier and this make the system to work
reverse which is terrible idea!

The reason why it works reverse is because Owners don't like the noise
can you believe this? but its the reality...and I will example. On E34M5 the
system works reverse as on the E46M3 The system is designed to work
only on the fan clutch cycles. The E.Fan has 2 speed low and hi. Low speed
engages at 91C and the hi speed engages at 99C.

The E34M5 owners do complain all the time from this very loud and pronounce
noise. Every generation BMW do improve in noise and why BMW decided to
do reverse and if the fan goes bad because works all the time Buy New one.

The E.Fan DB is more quiet than the 420mm fan deep blade. BMW 420mm Fan
was first introduced in E32/E34 chassis and used till the last car rolled out with mechanical
fan from the factory. (V8 engines same design but its 460mm instead of 420mm).

A very important note I want to make here: installing this Sachs will increase the
cycles and the Fan Blade must be replaced with Brand New Factory Part never
ever use Febi or any other brand. I even can smell the plastic and define which
one is which !!!!
You don't want to be one of those owners who are "if aint broken dont fix it" and one
day under hard driving conditions the 20years old Cooked-Plastic one of the
blades will let go and your aluminum hood will see a hole! Replace per my suggestion
and you are good for another 100k.

Yes on the track/street. If you are very aggressive driver on the track race agains
the clock as I do personally then it will be a point were the system will max out due
other factors which is for another chapter/subject.

Regards,
Anri

Its a 2 degree difference between the 2 clutch couplings.

92 vs 90(S54). Thermostat Openings are 88-97 (M5x->M54) vs 80(S54).

Clutch fans do not operate above 4,500rpm. It has no benefit on the race track.
Your are better of opening your engine bay letting the motor cool after you session than running a lower locking clutch fan.

A well maintained S54 with OE parts will work better than what you are suggestion.

[Anri]

Hi,

A well maintained S54 with OE parts will work better than what you are suggestion

I believe you..

Regards,
Anri

[nyc951]

Hi,

Tricks how to improve the system in every area is something I usually
don't like to share online but in the name to help the community here we go.
The Fan clutch I use is from E36M3 which fits all M50 engine family
and the brand is Sachs part number 11 52 7 505 302. (I have another
more aggressive custom option but will shorten the life span of the water pump
by a bit but that is for heavy duty applications).


The Sachs engages right above the thermostat means the second the
T stat opens at 80C and pushes the water circle inline the fan clutch engages
immediately and keeps the engine from heat soaking and will shut down
aprox ~68C, and the cycle continues.



Regards,
Anri

Hi - what temperature does the e36m3 fan clutch engage at?

[ZiMMie]

Hi - what temperature does the e36m3 fan clutch engage at?

90 degrees.