S54 Vanos Help

[bmwfnatic]

You seem to be concerned about the wrong things.

Wiring an essay about torque wrenches to torque some bolts which do not affect timing, if you just get them reasonably as snug as possible with a normal length 10mm wrench without trying to purposefully break things they are perfect.

But somehow not concerned about using a crappy chinese tool which the video demonstrates is way off from the original.
The fact that those tools come with 2 pins shows that they didn’t understand how the tool and its tolerances are meant to work.

[Savageblunder]

Honestly I’m not concerned about anything. I came here seeking the opinion of others who have actually done this job if they thought it was more likely my factory timing could be that far off or if something else was going on. I learned you really have to rock the heck out of the exhaust cam to check timing before dissasembly. & later the tool aftermarket tool was not accurate.

I’ve read numerous posts on forums from people claiming they’re following Besian procedure to the letter & timing S54 cams many many times, only to become frustrated because they keep going out of time after few rotations. I think I read one guy did it like 50 times! Other people following the same procedure get it on the 1st or 2nd try.

Maybe people on this forum don’t care; but I’m very curious why this is. In theory if you follow the Besian procedure it should be correct 100% of the time. It seems to be (almost) universally accepted Besian’s instructions are correct & well written. But, I’ve seen various reasons posted regarding why some have issues & some don’t: people being overly picky about the bridge being flat, slack in the timing chain, rotating the engine counter clock wise, variation due to stacked tolerances of the particular engine, turning the engine with the plugs in, Besian’s procedure misses key steps, aftermarket timing bridges are crap, & the hub bolts not being torqued / untorqued correctly during the “pretension stage”. I don’t like variables I can’t control when working on a vehicle,

I do agree with you this particular tool is a crappy Chinese tool & the fact that it comes with 2 pins is questionable. But, I’ve seen people on car forums post a bunch of stuff is “crap” just because it comes from China & in the real world most of the time the stuff works just fine.

[sapote]

1. issue #2 making me lean this way is on Z4 you cannot put Vanos back on with splined hubs installed - you have to put splined hubs on car first & then bolt the Vanos on to them on car, as there is no room due to radiator support.
2. So, in preparation, just in case - I pulled the caps to measure where the pistons are when they are all the way back in the Vanos & planned to re-install without the caps so I can verify they are bottomed out.
interesingly enough - at the back in the bore with pistons hitting the caps stops- they are not at the same depth. The exhaust is about 0.048mm from end of bore & intake is about 0.027mm below end of bore. ... but it does look like the exhaust may be off & that doesn’t make me feel any better about messing with it, if I can’t understand what’s going on with it initially. Maybe the engines were off from the factory?

1. I don't follow Beisan on this. I always put the splined shafts into the hubs first and thread the vanos pistons to the shafts later as this is easier to align and mount the vanos body, especially with re-drilled disc small holes with 0.1mm clearance to tabs.
2. They might not be at the same depth. It depends on the little bump on the each cap molding, which don't have to be precise. The bump is needed so the piston has a small gap to the cap flat end to allow for oil pressure to move the piston. No gap then piston can't move by oil P. This is why the precise timing is achieved only with the pistons touching the cap bumps before torquing the hub bolts.

[Savageblunder]

Update for anyone who is interested. I changed all the seals in the vanos per Besian procedure. I was torn about even bothering to do this, as the original seals seemed good as new. I don’t think the S54 has issues with these seals as some other BMW engines do. Anyway I had the seals, so I did it. I do oil changes every 5k & everything just wipes clean as new.

[Savageblunder]

Had an experience I can’t really explain… Finished rebuilding vanos(easy), removed exhaust cam gear took off chain tensioner & L upper timing chain guide. I replaced the worn (wasn’t broke) guide w/ Besian - which is beefier. Went to put it back together & had an awful time getting exhaust cam gear back on.

I tried everything - it was like the chain was too “tight” or not long enough. There just wasn’t enough slack in it to get cam gear back on end of cam. I ended up removing intake cam gear as well at one point - because I thought it may have become kinked at the crank or something or half jumped. I tried it w chain tensioner backed out, etc.. I took out Besian guide 2x cuz I thought maybe it was in backwards or something - it wasn’t. I tried prying down on new tensioner w/ an 3/8” extension wrapped in a rag. I tried putting both cam gears on at once - which coulda worked if I had 4 hands.

Eventually somehow got it. I spent over 2 hours just on this. Once it was on, chain seemed to have a normal amount of deflection if you push on it - not binding or anything. Finished rest of vanos install procedure following Besian. Took out spark plugs b4 rotating engine, as it always spins easier w/ no plugs & I decided I may as well replace them (30k miles) & ordered new ones & oil change kit cuz some Brake Kleen prolly got in the oil.

Timed the engine w/ bridge. Spun it multiple times. No issues - pins go in bridge w/ crank pin in & engine spins normally. Seems like in videos the exhaust cam gear goes on no problem, but they are mostly using old chain guides or if new - a BMW one. I’m wondering if anyone out there has used the Besian one & experienced this?

[Slideways]

Had an experience I can’t really explain… Finished rebuilding vanos(easy), removed exhaust cam gear took off chain tensioner & L upper timing chain guide. I replaced the worn (wasn’t broke) guide w/ Besian - which is beefier. Went to put it back together & had an awful time getting exhaust cam gear back on.

I tried everything - it was like the chain was too “tight” or not long enough. There just wasn’t enough slack in it to get cam gear back on end of cam. I ended up removing intake cam gear as well at one point - because I thought it may have become kinked at the crank or something or half jumped. I tried it w chain tensioner backed out, etc.. I took out Besian guide 2x cuz I thought maybe it was in backwards or something - it wasn’t. I tried prying down on new tensioner w/ an 3/8” extension wrapped in a rag. I tried putting both cam gears on at once - which coulda worked if I had 4 hands.

Eventually somehow got it. I spent over 2 hours just on this. Once it was on, chain seemed to have a normal amount of deflection if you push on it - not binding or anything. Finished rest of vanos install procedure following Besian. Took out spark plugs b4 rotating engine, as it always spins easier w/ no plugs & I decided I may as well replace them (30k miles) & ordered new ones & oil change kit cuz some Brake Kleen prolly got in the oil.

Timed the engine w/ bridge. Spun it multiple times. No issues - pins go in bridge w/ crank pin in & engine spins normally. Seems like in videos the exhaust cam gear goes on no problem, but they are mostly using old chain guides or if new - a BMW one. I’m wondering if anyone out there has used the Besian one & experienced this?

Did you have the tensioner out completely before putting the exhaust sprocket back on? A chain link could have been bunched up somewhere, but it can sometimes be a tight fit to get the sprocket back on. It is a double link chain and does not have a lot of slack to slide the sprocket in without a little manipulation, i.e. taking both sprockets off and installing them together.

[Savageblunder]

Did you have the tensioner out completely before putting the gear back on? A chain link could have been bunched up somewhere, but it can sometimes be a tight fit to get the gear back on. It is a double link chain and does not have a lot of slack to slide the gears in without a little manipulation, i.e. taking both gears off and installing them together.

Thank you for your help. Yeah, I had tensioner completely out. I think my hands are getting weak lol. I’m 52 & noticing more car repair jobs that require ringtones of hand strength; esp w/ hands in awkward positions I seem to have more trouble with than others. I usually compensate by removing more parts to gain bettter access. It’s so weird, I’ve read everything Vanos s54 & saw 0.0% of people struggle w/ this & for
me it was such a PIA where you’re at the point your hand is bleeding, your causing, & wanna start throwing wrenches. But all the other stuff other 1st timers had a hard time with I didn’t.

Well didn’t start the car yet, will be a few days. Maybe a piston will hit a valve. That would be a struggle.

I was exhausted from a long day at work & only planned on messing with this car for 20 mins or so. I got sucked in - that was a mistake. I can very close to cross threading the tensioner in the block. I didn’t have the right socket, mine was too deep to keep tension on the tensioner while getting the threads started. I took it off with 1.25” wrench which worked fine, but getting it on you need a socket that isn’t like a 36mm (or 32mm can’t recall which size it is) tube & the tensioner just sinks completely in that socket, so you can’t put forward tension on the tensioner to get threads started. The tensioner threads just kept wanting to start so it was threading in crooked. Eventually I got it in smoothly - but it was a fight.

[sapote]

Had an experience I can’t really explain… Finished rebuilding vanos(easy), removed exhaust cam gear took off chain tensioner & L upper timing chain guide. I replaced the worn (wasn’t broke) guide w/ Besian - which is beefier. Went to put it back together & had an awful time getting exhaust cam gear back on.

Cam sprocket is the standard name vs cam gear which is rarely used.

Do you have the new top guide's bottom end under the bottom guide? I didn't have any issues when installing the Beisan top guide.

[bmwfnatic]

Timed the engine w/ bridge. Spun it multiple times. No issues - pins go in bridge w/ crank pin in & engine spins normally. Seems like in videos the exhaust cam gear goes on no problem, but they are mostly using old chain guides or if new - a BMW one. I’m wondering if anyone out there has used the Besian one & experienced this?

Sounds like you probably have the Beisan upper guide sitting behind the lower guide, instead of in front in its designated slot, that would cause excessive chain tension, there should be plenty of slop without the tensioner installed to get the gears in without struggling.

[maupineda]

as above, your stack of guides may have been flipped. I never struggled putting the sprockets on on my Z.

[Savageblunder]

Sounds like you probably have the Beisan upper guide sitting behind the lower guide, instead of in front in its designated slot, that would cause excessive chain tension, there should be plenty of slop without the tensioner installed to get the gears in without struggling.

I’m getting ready to button everything up - I have it as below. Everything seems normal now & chain isn’t excessively tight when you push down on it. For whatever reason stuff other people struggle with o never do - but I always have difficulties with the oddest stuff. I hade no issues getting the timing to stick or dealing with that side oil return pipe on the valve cover with the 2 copper crush washers.

Replaced the plugs & have VC sitting on head w/ new grommets now. Getting ready to put the bolts on.

[Slideways]

I’m getting ready to button everything up - I have it as below. Everything seems normal now & chain isn’t excessively tight when you push down on it. For whatever reason stuff other people struggle with o never do - but I always have difficulties with the oddest stuff. I hade no issues getting the timing to stick or dealing with that side oil return pipe on the valve cover with the 2 copper crush washers.

Replaced the plugs & have VC sitting on head w/ new grommets now. Getting ready to put the bolts on.

You shouldn't have to take it all apart. Take the valve cover off and look down their with a flash light to check the timing chain guide. Take a picture if you are not sure.

[Savageblunder]

Took my time & went super slow. Careful not to drop a copper washer, pinch a wire, break a plastic connector, etc… Decided to skip the RTV anywhere on valve
cover gasket, as I’ve never had an issue with it leaking & Besian says it’s viton (OEM) & if it’s in good shape you can use it again. The old one has been on since I adjusted valves last; maybe 6 years ago & looked perfectly usable except for the little RTV I used last time.

I cleared Vanos adaptions car started right up, shaky idle for 10 seconds, & then it evened out super smooth. No CEL, no leaks, no problems. I ended up making a video where I explain what I think is the best way to do a vanos overhaul / set timing on a Z4 M e85 secondary
to the clearence issue & also quick walk around video just showing the car. This method does not require luck, gueswork, “pre-tensioning” of hub bolts, spacers, removing the vanos twice, or trying to guess when your at 14nm of torque for hub bolts when installing helical gears / splined shafts on car separately from vanos unit on Z4 M.

https://youtu.be/HR91NgnUhiY?si=iNTCYGz3x_yzuyMe

Thanks to everyone who helped.

[Slideways]

Savageblunder I'm glad that your method worked, but someone who has not done this work before could get confused by the tightening the hub bolts and removing the caps to check the piston depth. Also, the caps can only be torqued when the VANOS unit is off the car. For this reason, anyone performing this on a Z4M should put the splined shafts in the hubs first (as you did) with access to the threaded portion, put the VANOS unit on with the long bolts letting it dangle against the crossmember, attached the splined shafts to the VANOS pistons (making sure the pistons are out far enough to get to the hex portion), and use the 7mm wrench to grab on to the flat spot of the splined shafts and pry them towards the VANOS unit. Once the splined shafts (attached to the pistons) are out of the hubs, you can use your hands to press the splined shafts into the VANOS unit and fully bottom out the pistons. Then you can continue with the Beisan procedure exactly as it is for the E46 M3 and feed the VANOS unit with splined shafts into the hubs.

***For the Z4M, the Oil Regulating Valve has to be placed in the cylinder head first before mounting the VANOS unit. Beisan has you place this valve in the VANOS unit before mounting it to the cylinder head because there is much more space on the E46 M3. Getting it out on the Z4M during disassembly is also annoying as you have to use needle nose pliers or locking vice grips to grab the valve so it does not fall into the engine. After you figure out the method for doing this job on a Z4M, it becomes less annoying lol.

[Savageblunder]

Savageblunder I'm glad that your method worked, but someone who has not done this work before could get confused by the tightening the hub bolts and removing the caps to check the piston depth. Also, the caps can only be torqued when the VANOS unit is off the car. For this reason, anyone performing this on a Z4M should put the splined shafts in the hubs first (as you did) with access to the threaded portion, put the VANOS unit on with the long bolts letting it dangle against the crossmember, attached the splined shafts to the VANOS pistons (making sure the pistons are out far enough to get to the hex portion), and use the 7mm wrench to grab on to the flat spot of the splined shafts and pry them towards the VANOS unit. Once the splined shafts (attached to the pistons) are out of the hubs, you can use your hands to press the splined shafts into the VANOS unit and fully bottom out the pistons. Then you can continue with the Beisan procedure exactly as it is for the E46 M3 and feed the VANOS unit with splined shafts into the hubs.

***For the Z4M, the Oil Regulating Valve has to be placed in the cylinder head first before mounting the VANOS unit. Beisan has you place this valve in the VANOS unit before mounting it to the cylinder head because there is much more space on the E46 M3. Getting it out on the Z4M during disassembly is also annoying as you have to use needle nose pliers or locking vice grips to grab the valve so it does not fall into the engine. After you figure out the method for doing this job on a Z4M, it becomes less annoying lol.

I tried it that way & was paranoid & took the caps off & it was close - but pistons were not all the way back. I know it because I put the caps on while the vanos was on the bench with the pistons hanging out, then removed the caps, & then measured piston depth from the end of the bore with a feeler gauge. I would’ve swore they were already back - but they were ~ 2.5mm from the end & they are all the way back @ 1.2mm & 0.6mm from end of the bore (exhaust / intake)- (at least on my car anyway).

Yes, this way you can’t torque the caps, but to me that’s much less critical that the vanos hubs. Caps never leak unless something is damaged or o-ring is missing. I had no problem with oil regulator / feed tube - I could take it out with the vanos - which means I could put it in with it. I slapped it in there when I was test fitting it & it fit on my car no prob. I can’t find a Besian procedure spec for Z4 M, although I’ve seen it referred to. Maybe it’s gone?

All in all, I’m beginning to think this really doesn’t matter. I’m just 1 guy w/1 car. I’d like to know from someone whose fixed botched vanos jobs or has done many of these is they have ever ran into an issue that was directly pin pointed to pistons not being bottomed out. I’m also fairly sure the “sweet tooth” is mostly nonsense as well. It seems to me like every 2 or 3 teeth there was a “sweet tooth”.

Maybe next I’ll do rod bearings - but I’m starting to think with that just because a little copper is showing - it really doesn’t mean much. If you Google which metal is softer lead vs copper - it’s lead. Yes I understand if lead is worn away at one point - that means there is more critical.

But as we say in medicine - “is it clinically significant”? What is the thickness of that lead layer on a bearing? If just about every single person who has replaced rod bearings in their S54 has copper showing & l’m going to say < 1% of S54s throw a rod / rod knock - is that the root cause? BMW literally built ~ 100,000 of these S54 engines. Literally every person who changes their bearings & posts pics, almost regardless of mileage, has copper showing. And out of those “car forum people” that do get a rod knock - how many were tracked / abused cars? But yeah, I get it, better safe than sorry.