DuracellTTU Build: 280/288 Cams, Lang Head, CSL Airbox, Full SS w/ Dyno Results

[Sharocks]

So I'm a bit confused. With 288/280 Cams, Carbon Airbox, SSV1+dual 2.5 sec2+ 2.5 muffler, are upgraded fuel injectors necessary? Or just rebuilt/brand new stock. It's an old car and I don't want to just throw money at it that isnt needed.

I got new OE ones from FCP when they were like 250 a set. That and a brand new OE fuel pump, filter, FPR and at 40% duty cycle with the same mods on 93 fuel at around 80 degree weather I made 350/265 on a Mustang Dyno.

[jet_dogg]

Curious to hear your reasoning. This isn’t the first time you have commented with that position without any additional detail.

The guys answered above, you're not maxing anything out at those power levels.

Haha! I have a very detailed spreadsheet with every mod and maintenance item I've accomplished over my 15 years of ownership. If my wife ever saw it she would faint.

If my lady knew she'd just give me an "Oh God" with a head shake.

[ZiMMie]

I got new OE ones from FCP when they were like 250 a set. That and a brand new OE fuel pump, filter, FPR and at 40% duty cycle with the same mods on 93 fuel at around 80 degree weather I made 350/265 on a Mustang Dyno.

sorry that math doesn't work .

With stock injectors at 5bars *fuel pressure you are well above 95%+ on stock duty cycle at that power level.

yea it will work. but its not good as you can get heavy wall wetting and puddling which enrich the mixture for a while after you get out of the throttle.

[Sharocks]

sorry that math doesn't work .

With stock injectors at 5bars *fuel pressure you are well above 95%+ on stock duty cycle at that power level.

yea it will work. but its not good as you can get heavy wall wetting and puddling which enrich the mixture for a while after you get out of the throttle.

I was told 40%. If it's maxed out, well I now have some mods I gotta do I guess.

It's doing fine considering I don't baby the thing and it's no garage queen.

[digger]

I was told 40%.

yeah nah.

its preferable to use bigger injectors if possible but on the s54 there does not seem to be any sensible pnp fitments available. a massive o/s injector is ok i.e. ID1050x on a NA engine with standalone but not sure with the OE ECU whether that's a good option as far as being able to input the injector characteristics to control them as good as possible.

An oversized injector allows you to mess around with injection timing in a more meaningful way. if you are north of 90% it does not matter when you start or end the injection event in relation to the inlet valve open and closed as the injector is always open at the topend of the rpm band.

[nuc1]

Depends on how much larger you want/need to go. I went with 550cc injectors based on another member's success with that size and a similar engine build with supporting mods.

See post #26 in the link below for plug and play options.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...ge2#post211070

This is from ZiMMie from post 26:

Yea it's probably much easier for the tuner as he already have a can tuned with that specific injector.

I'll post a list of drop in injectors that will not require any hardware modifications for people in the future.

OE 193g/min (267.5cc/min) @ 3 bars.

0280156061 / 62678 - 217g/min (301.34cc/min) @ 3bars.
0280155831 / 62672 - 237g/min (329.17cc/min) @ 3bars
0280156063 / 62431 - 269g/min (373.59cc/min) @ 3bars
0280155968*62695*/0280156102 *62698* 310g/min (430.01cc/min) @ 3bars.

They are all EV6*e* injectors for the S54.

With the posted 55% duty cycle of the 510cc injectors, that would equal 280 cc/min. What is the consensus on using any of the ones listed?

Mike

[duracellttu]

This is from ZiMMie from post 26:

Yea it's probably much easier for the tuner as he already have a can tuned with that specific injector.

I'll post a list of drop in injectors that will not require any hardware modifications for people in the future.

OE 193g/min (267.5cc/min) @ 3 bars.

0280156061 / 62678 - 217g/min (301.34cc/min) @ 3bars.
0280155831 / 62672 - 237g/min (329.17cc/min) @ 3bars
0280156063 / 62431 - 269g/min (373.59cc/min) @ 3bars
0280155968*62695*/0280156102 *62698* 310g/min (430.01cc/min) @ 3bars.

They are all EV6*e* injectors for the S54.

With the posted 55% duty cycle of the 510cc injectors, that would equal 280 cc/min. What is the consensus on using any of the ones listed?

Mike

It's important to note that there isn't (wasn't) much information out there on injector duty cycle % based on different mods and engine setups. I was basically shooting in the dark and going off the experience from thegenius46m. He has a very similar setup to mine and said Hassan was able to fix is issues with upgraded 550cc injectors and a new tune. For me that was enough to pull the trigger on these.

I asked Hassan about the injector duty cycle for my finally tune and he told me I had about 45% left on this setup. I'm assuming that means I'm running at 55% duty cycle. This is new information for the community to use as they will. It likely means that you can get away with an injector that is in the same family as OE and smaller than 550cc. Up to you to determine.

There are benefits of going to these 550cc injectors. One, it's a newer technology injector with a different spray pattern. Two, it allows the option to go FI without needing to upgrade this part.

Overall, I'm not too worried about spending a few extra buck on bigger injectors and some nice Radium parts. I've spared no expense up to this point. Why stop now haha?!

[nuc1]

It's important to note that there isn't (wasn't) much information out there on injector duty cycle % based on different mods and engine setups. I was basically shooting in the dark and going off the experience from thegenius46m. He has a very similar setup to mine and said Hassan was able to fix is issues with upgraded 550cc injectors and a new tune. For me that was enough to pull the trigger in these.

I asked Hassan about the injector duty cycle for my finally tune and he told me I had about 45% left on this setup. I'm assuming that means I'm running at 55% duty cycle. This is new information for the community to use as they will. It likely means that you can get away with an injector that is in the same family as OE and smaller than 550cc. Up to you to determine.

There are benefits of going to these 550cc injectors. One, it's a newer technology injector with a different spray pattern. Two, it allows the option to go FI without needing to upgrade this part.

Overall, I'm not too worried about spending a few extra buck on bigger injectors and some nice Radium parts. I've spared no expense up to this point. Why stop now haha?!

I can see why you went the path you did. This is the first time I've seen someone in the M3 world say our cars need bigger injectors for the (now) normal power adder mods. And it's some great info for me because we have an almost identical mod list (with the exception of 4.10s and an older Turner airbox for me). Been looking into finally getting the car retuned and your posts really caught my eye. After reading all the posts from the members here, HTE will be my next tuner. Will be doing some thinking about using a bigger injector that fits w/o modding. The M has been FI'd before; won't be doing that again.

Thanks for posting. Very informative.

Mike

[spx.garage]

What is the drivability like on the street with the 280/288 cams? I've been looking into cams but this is my backup track car and will see some street miles on the drive to the track.

[duracellttu]

I can see why you went the path you did. This is the first time I've seen someone in the M3 world say our cars need bigger injectors for the (now) normal power adder mods. And it's some great info for me because we have an almost identical mod list (with the exception of 4.10s and an older Turner airbox for me). Been looking into finally getting the car retuned and your posts really caught my eye. After reading all the posts from the members here, HTE will be my next tuner. Will be doing some thinking about using a bigger injector that fits w/o modding. The M has been FI'd before; won't be doing that again.

Thanks for posting. Very informative.

Mike

Glad to hear you found the info useful. That's what their forum and community is all about, sharing knowledge!

What is the drivability like on the street with the 280/288 cams? I've been looking into cams but this is my backup track car and will see some street miles on the drive to the track.

I don't have a ton of seat time yet, but the drive home from the dyno was complete bliss. My hesitation issues in lower RPMs are gone from what I've noticed. Like any car with big cams, I just make sure I'm above 2.5k RPMs before going WOT.

[spx.garage]

Glad to hear you found the info useful. That's what their forum and community is all about, sharing knowledge!



I don't have a ton of seat time yet, but the drive home from the dyno was complete bliss. My hesitation issues in lower RPMs are gone from what I've noticed. Like any car with big cams, I just make sure I'm above 2.5k RPMs before going WOT.

That's great to hear! I'm definitely following this build, pretty much the exact goals I have for my car over the next year (haha the car that I've owned for 1 week). The backup for the E92