Coilover Recommendation

[Tbonem3]

What preload are you talking about Ian? I've always wondered about this. The end links use ball joints that are free to rotate and pivot unlike a rubber bushing that we preload so that it doesn't twist at ride height, only upon hieght change as susp moves up/down.

As far as endlink length, the sway bar is free to rotate in its rubber/poly bushings. So you just rotate it up or down till the hole lines up with the endlink.

AFAIK, the tension(spring) a sway provides is through lever(flex) maybe twisting? but not rotating.

I must be missing something.

[Obioban]

What preload are you talking about Ian? I've always wondered about this. The end links use ball joints that are free to rotate and pivot unlike a rubber bushing that we preload so that it doesn't twist at ride height, only upon hieght change as susp moves up/down.

As far as endlink length, the sway bar is free to rotate in its rubber/poly bushings. So you just rotate it up or down till the hole lines up with the endlink.

AFAIK, the tension(spring) a sway provides is through lever(flex) maybe twisting? but not rotating.

I must be missing something.

To take the preload situation to an extreme, imagine if one side of the car sat 5” higher than the other— the sway bar end link wouldn’t line up by ~5”. If you compressed the spring to force it to align, that would be the preload.

Odds of a car being spot on the exact ride height that there’s zero preload on the sway are pretty low.

(obviously 5” is stupid— just trying to make it so you can visualize it)

[Tbonem3]

Ok, so it's the load differential between left/right arms/levers. But with the car up in the air, how is one side going to be higher than the other?

The sway bar provides extra spring when one side is more loaded than the other, But at rest, with struts at full droop, there'd be no load.

[Obioban]

Ok, so it's the load differential between left/right arms/levers. But with the car up in the air, how is one side going to be higher than the other?

The sway bar provides extra spring when one side is more loaded than the other, But at rest, with struts at full droop, there'd be no load.

True— to set sway bar preload, the suspension needs to be at static load.

[Tbonem3]

Ok, so searched a bit and it seemed that the key was keeping the ends of the sways parallel to the ground.

The bar does rotate and a fixed endlink will force it to from its proper position in parallel.

So if you're lowered a fair amount like 1"-2" you may be pushing the ends down by that much (in an arc) and while that's not actually adding preload, it is making the lever harder to pull I think (increased spring rate?) Due to the distance changing. Perhaps that's not really a bad thing if it's a small amount if you're on a low or medium setting.

This is where stock like sway tab locations on the strut (or higher, if such exist) AND maintaining travel through camber plate/mount mods won't require different endlinks. Afaik, the biggest change in tab locations is on KWs.

I still don't understand how one adjustable endlink is nec. When any slight differences from side to side will be corrected for by the freely moving ball joint. *Unless the ball joint isn't able to pivot once fastened to the bar/tab. It will be free to spin so the sway can rotate. But perhaps it can't pivot once the shank is fastened (no free play/angles).

It also seems that racecars are the one's doing this "to the nth degree" fine tuning.

[Obioban]

Ok, so searched a bit and it seemed that the key was keeping the ends of the sways parallel to the ground.

The bar does rotate and a fixed endlink will force it to from its proper position in parallel.

So if you're lowered a fair amount like 1"-2" you may be pushing the ends down by that much (in an arc) and while that's not actually adding preload, it is making the lever harder to pull I think (increased spring rate?) Due to the distance changing. Perhaps that's not really a bad thing if it's a small amount if you're on a low or medium setting.

This is where stock like sway tab locations on the strut (or higher, if such exist) AND maintaining travel through camber plate/mount mods won't require different endlinks. Afaik, the biggest change in tab locations is on KWs.

I still don't understand how one adjustable endlink is nec. When any slight differences from side to side will be corrected for by the freely moving ball joint. *Unless the ball joint isn't able to pivot once fastened to the bar/tab. It will be free to spin so the sway can rotate. But perhaps it can't pivot once the shank is fastened (no free play/angles).

It also seems that racecars are the one's doing this "to the nth degree" fine tuning.

The reason to have two adjustable end links is to keep the end links perpendicular to the sway. That often, but not always, results in the sway being parallel to the ground.

That is significantly less important than having one end link, which allows you to dial out preload. Having a preloaded sway makes the end links wear out faster than stock and behave different when turning left than right (as one way will have the sway engage faster than no preload and the other will have the sway push the car towards rolling before slowing it.

I would consider one to be necessary (if non stock), two to be fine tuning.

[Slideways]

Which Turner end-link is recommended?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-338359-adjustable-sway-bar-link-single-e30-m3-e36-m3-e46-z4/?pdk=AQ

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-339009-e28-e30-e34-e36-e39-e46-e9x-mz3-z4-turner-motorsport-adjustable-front-sway-bar-end-links-pair/?pdk=AQ

[Obioban]

The second one.

[SUPREM3]

I also have Ohlins on my E92 and love them. I drive my M3 mostly on the street but will start tracking it soon: should I stick with Ohlins or go to MCS2WNR? Is it worth the extra $1k+ over Ohlins?

Although Ian covered it, I would leave the car alone if you haven't started tracking yet. Although you won't be as "optimized" with your setup as is, seat time is the most important factor on track. I tracked with my E92 and the car felt great. Biggest thing I would focus on would be alignment. Car Pushes without it properly setup, so dialing that in proper will make the car feel much better.

The Ohlins Dampers are great!

[JayVee]

How is the Dinan suspension? I see they pair their springs with Koni yellow's.. I think this might be a good upgrade for my car, OEM+, weekend car, garage kept, and I want something for slightly better handling but still comfortable. Does anyone know if the dampers that come with the Dinan kit are the exact same Koni's I can buy elsewhere, but cheaper?

[Obioban]

There is nothing unique about the Dinan Koinis.

If you value ease of adjustment, get the tck s/a rear mini yellows— they’re top adjustable.

[JayVee]

There is nothing unique about the Dinan Koinis.

If you value ease of adjustment, get the tck s/a rear mini yellows— they’re top adjustable.

I suspected as much. Now, this begs the question of whose springs Dinan is using? But for $280 I think ill buy from them and get the +2 badge points

[0-60motorsports]

A great thread, I was looking for feedback on PSS10's, So my Story is that I have been on GC DA's for almost 7-10 years and they were great, until first the rear shocks started leaking and then the fronts. The rears were an easy replacement from GC but the fronts a whole different story. They sent me wrong shocks twice and after so much back and forth I installed the last set of front shocks which i went from DA to SA's as I was done with the complication. Well now the fronts make a weird sound like the springs are turning and not sitting snug. We cant figure it out even though the GC camber plates were rebuilt and good as new. I am so glad I never returned the original DA shocks to GC, maybe i can send them for a rebuild to Koni and or Fatcat Motorsports but that would be a mjor headache due to covid and logistics being slow right now. Not interested in TCK or GC any more though.....

Any way, I am thinking of changing coilovers and going for a commercial setup that has easy and quick replacement of shocks and or rebuild services, Choices are KW V2/V3 with GC/TMS camber plates, PSS10 with GC/TMS camber plates or Fortune auto 500 9/11kg springs. I am leaning towards the PSS10 or Fortune Auto 500. What would your advice be for someone who feels he is getting older (LOL) and wants to enjoy a nice tight yet not too uncomfortable ride on the street and step in for an occasional lap or three of the Bahrain F1 Circuit.

[Ob917]

Without rereading everything did anybody have any input or experience with the Bilstein Clubsport kit? Are those inserts their motorsport dampeners? I have about a 4K-5k budget and these have caught my eye. Looking for a two way setup something a little better than a revalved koni. There are a few good set ups in that range that I’m thinking about, Ohlins track, fortune auto dread nought or that Mueller tuned kit, or some ASTs or maybe MCSs. Just can’t make up my mind and I’d like to buy something that won’t take weeks to arrive. I know Bilstein builds some quality parts I’ve been happy with the VW shocks I’ve used in the past and that kit is in stock.

[r4dr]

That's a lot of money for meh spring rates that will give you pitch, and progressive rear springs. If Turner's description is accurate.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-16546-e46-m3-bilstein-clubsport-coil-over-suspension/