7 year review of my SMG (from clunk to no clunk)

[TramRam]

Hi There - in INPA, green = good, red = bad, its probably asking you to interrupt and break the procedure with F10 - I agree with burkhart, the delay is caused by either a broken spring or bad GPS both have similar symptoms but since you replaced the GPS (i assume with a new one) it should be the springs - What prompted you to replace the GPS? is it due to the delay in shifts? are you getting the yellow COG when you get the red screen in INPA? I assume that the bleeding procedures complete with the green screen followed by the printed "kein Fehler" (this means no error)

If you complete adaptation correctly, it will prompt you to start the engine (which you do) then it will tell you to hold the break pedal for 1-2 seconds then it will terminate with a green screen asking you to break and view the log files (which you should have a line that says "kein Fehler" (at least it does this on my germglish version of INPA)

I suggest replacing the spring before continuing with adaptations

Take a look at this thread, https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...g-transmission

Thanks for your response. Sorry for dropping the conversation flow. To answer your questions Irhase46m3, I had a complete engine rebuild before this at a shop with only Snap On diagnostics. They did their best to keep the SMG hydraulic system closed but I wasn't convinced all was fine so I drove the car to Ft. Lauderdale to the shop of a friend with an Autologic. When he ran adaptations, he got a code indicating; 'shift gate end positions of odd gears implausible'. He said that my GPS was probably shot and should be replaced at least first to get that issue out of the way.Just around that time, a friend local to me had found an SMG M3 that he bought for cheap with the intention to convert it and offered any/all the SMG parts that were coming off. Two weeks later, I had all the parts including a completely clean, new looking GPS.By this time I had installed INPA but had no experience and no one near me who knows it. I asked him if there were any problems in the way the car shifts. He said not at all, that it shifted fine but that he 'never wanted an SMG car' & said the seller told him that the GPS had recently been replaced. Anyway, it's is now on my car now. It's after I installed it, the ONLY issue has been a laggy 4th gear shift. (3rd up AND 5th down. Like the other guys with a similar issue, once RPMs drop to around 3k, it will always engage but the fun was gone. FInally installing INPA but not having run adaptations before, I was a bit nervous but took the plunge and the outcome is what I reported above. I now have both springs to change out now and now I need the time to get them swapped out hoping for at least one broken spring! I emailed Burkhart who said my symptom strongly suggests a broken spring. I've read that with care & patience BOTH springs can be changed without taking the tranny OUT but the fan shroud needs to be removed along with unbolting the tranny mount to let the tranny drop, it would need to be as low as possible at its tail end. (I know about the driveshaft and exhaust needing to be removed. Like with most things, once you start you find your way. I appreciate reading the inputs of the other SMG/INPA pros! I never got the yellow Cog wheel with the red screen during the adaptation. The only thing I have now is once I turn the key to Position 2 & press the brake, I hear a 'clunk' as Neutral shows. All else is good as long as I drive reasonably but what fun is that?? Thanks for the help! PS. For those with Android phones, most have 'Google Translate'. Once you open it, it'll translate any German on the screen into ENGLEZ!! Kinda cool if you can't understand German.

[Irhase46m3]

Thanks for your response. Sorry for dropping the conversation flow. To answer your questions Irhase46m3, I had a complete engine rebuild before this at a shop with only Snap On diagnostics. They did their best to keep the SMG hydraulic system closed but I wasn't convinced all was fine so I drove the car to Ft. Lauderdale to the shop of a friend with an Autologic. When he ran adaptations, he got a code indicating; 'shift gate end positions of odd gears implausible'. He said that my GPS was probably shot and should be replaced at least first to get that issue out of the way.Just around that time, a friend local to me had found an SMG M3 that he bought for cheap with the intention to convert it and offered any/all the SMG parts that were coming off. Two weeks later, I had all the parts including a completely clean, new looking GPS.By this time I had installed INPA but had no experience and no one near me who knows it. I asked him if there were any problems in the way the car shifts. He said not at all, that it shifted fine but that he 'never wanted an SMG car' & said the seller told him that the GPS had recently been replaced. Anyway, it's is now on my car now. It's after I installed it, the ONLY issue has been a laggy 4th gear shift. (3rd up AND 5th down. Like the other guys with a similar issue, once RPMs drop to around 3k, it will always engage but the fun was gone. FInally installing INPA but not having run adaptations before, I was a bit nervous but took the plunge and the outcome is what I reported above. I now have both springs to change out now and now I need the time to get them swapped out hoping for at least one broken spring! I emailed Burkhart who said my symptom strongly suggests a broken spring. I've read that with care & patience BOTH springs can be changed without taking the tranny OUT but the fan shroud needs to be removed along with unbolting the tranny mount to let the tranny drop, it would need to be as low as possible at its tail end. (I know about the driveshaft and exhaust needing to be removed. Like with most things, once you start you find your way. I appreciate reading the inputs of the other SMG/INPA pros! I never got the yellow Cog wheel with the red screen during the adaptation. The only thing I have now is once I turn the key to Position 2 & press the brake, I hear a 'clunk' as Neutral shows. All else is good as long as I drive reasonably but what fun is that?? Thanks for the help! PS. For those with Android phones, most have 'Google Translate'. Once you open it, it'll translate any German on the screen into ENGLEZ!! Kinda cool if you can't understand German.

Lol at this point i can translate a bit of German - I strongly suggest you drop the transmission and service it even if its preventative, by you doing everything you are doing you are already going about 70% of the way and only an extra 30% to drop the transmission and depending on your mileage/driving characteristics, you clutch is probably on its way out.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have and i'll do my best to reply in a timely manner, good luck with your spring change, you might need to lower the front sub-frame abit to get enough pivot to reach the spring!

[TramRam]

Lol at this point i can translate a bit of German - I strongly suggest you drop the transmission and service it even if its preventative, by you doing everything you are doing you are already going about 70% of the way and only an extra 30% to drop the transmission and depending on your mileage/driving characteristics, you clutch is probably on its way out.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have and i'll do my best to reply in a timely manner, good luck with your spring change, you might need to lower the front sub-frame abit to get enough pivot to reach the spring!

Well, get THIS...it's is the WORST (F) PART! The guy who rebuilt my engine is SNAIL SLOW but an impeccable builder, so I waited, waited & waited...it was almost 2 years that my car was off the road and my tranny was out & available to me! No doubt, had I just known I about these (F) springs I would definitely have CHECKED & simply replaced them but I only learned about them AFTER the engine and transmission were joined and in noticing slow & skip shifts I checked the Forums by my symptoms hundreds of miles after the engine break-in! I'm kicking my OWN (F) A*S! During the entire engine break-in when I was RIPPING on it hard repeatedly to 8200 with tons of down shifts for the rings in the last portion and all was fine! It was after maybe 500 miles that the sluggishness/delayed shifting started. 2nd to 3rd full throttle on-ramp runs when upshifts started to lag to the point I was nearly getting rear-ended several times by the cars I was blowing by! Anyway, I'll do what's needed to get to the springs. Just a real pisser to have missed a great opportunity earlier! Thanks for the info. I'm in an SMG 'desert' full of haters.

[robgill]

Hey @Irhase46m3, this thread has been super helpful for me getting my SMG build sorted. Right now the SMG is running great with one lingering annoying issue. I get a cog light only on cold start that goes away after a warm start. The code I get from PA Soft is "3B [059] Clutch Control" and the code from Carley is "00003B Driving Clutch / Stall Speed". After some googling the first thing I did was replaced the speed sensor which had no impact. Next I reran the INPA Adaptation. This failed while cold, and worked while warm. Thoughts on anything else I should be trying? In the meantime the code seems to have no impact at all on the SMG performance.

[oceansize]

Hey @Irhase46m3, this thread has been super helpful for me getting my SMG build sorted. Right now the SMG is running great with one lingering annoying issue. I get a cog light only on cold start that goes away after a warm start. The code I get from PA Soft is "3B [059] Clutch Control" and the code from Carley is "00003B Driving Clutch / Stall Speed". After some googling the first thing I did was replaced the speed sensor which had no impact. Next I reran the INPA Adaptation. This failed while cold, and worked while warm. Thoughts on anything else I should be trying? In the meantime the code seems to have no impact at all on the SMG performance.

This is most commonly the clutch slave cylinder due to the PLCD sensor which is not replaceable on its own (it is embedded into the clutch slave). Fortunately it is an easy job but it will require bleeding the system after replacement plus running adaptations. There is a difference between the SMG clutch slave and manual clutch slave. The SMG is more expensive of course.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/smg-slave-cylinder/21522229841/

[robgill]

This is most commonly the clutch slave cylinder due to the PLCD sensor which is not replaceable on its own (it is embedded into the clutch slave). Fortunately it is an easy job but it will require bleeding the system after replacement plus running adaptations. There is a difference between the SMG clutch slave and manual clutch slave. The SMG is more expensive of course.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/21522229841/

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll give the the slave cylinder a look. Thus continues the trend that if I didn't replace it during the full restoration it's now likely to break 😆.

[Irhase46m3]

Hi There - I too have the same COG light, only when cold start though (actual temp outside needs to be below 50 F) in order for this to happen.

a few questions, are you using the oem fluid chf11s to operate the pump?

are you letting the pump fully prime before you go to start the car?

in my case i can avoid the COG by doing the following:

let pump prime fully (turning the key to second position and not pressing the break pedal, until pump finishes priming. Once done priming, i press the brake pedal and start the car, this usually gets rid of the COG until it warms up.

Also, i have the burkhart engineering relocation kit and also their special smg pump oil, which in my case causes this COG when cold vs the chf11s fuild. Since i live in california it doesnt usually get that cold to warrant the change to chf11s so i just live with this process.

i suggest you try this before going out and replacing the slave cylinder.

good luck!

[zivagolee]

Hi There - I too have the same COG light, only when cold start though (actual temp outside needs to be below 50 F) in order for this to happen.

a few questions, are you using the oem fluid chf11s to operate the pump?

are you letting the pump fully prime before you go to start the car?

in my case i can avoid the COG by doing the following:

let pump prime fully (turning the key to second position and not pressing the break pedal, until pump finishes priming. Once done priming, i press the brake pedal and start the car, this usually gets rid of the COG until it warms up.

Also, i have the burkhart engineering relocation kit and also their special smg pump oil, which in my case causes this COG when cold vs the chf11s fuild. Since i live in california it doesnt usually get that cold to warrant the change to chf11s so i just live with this process.

i suggest you try this before going out and replacing the slave cylinder.

good luck!

I get the COG light on especially cold mornings with the Burkhart fluid (I also did the relocation and live in SF). I will switch back to chf11 fluid as recommended by Burkhart soon.

[oceansize]

If you guys get the cog light there should be codes. What are they?

I also have relocated my SMG pump to the drug bin and use Burkhart fluid. I do not get the cog light randomly under any circumstances (I had my car parked outside in rural PA two months ago for a week with the temp regularly hitting the teens and low twenties).

[robgill]

Yeah I am running the Burkhart relo and fluid. Also all of my starts have been cold weather (40 and below). oceansize it could be that the PLCD sensor you mention above is more sensitive to the cold weather and viscosity with age? I'm going to let it prime more and hope for warmer weather before I replace the slave cylinder.

If I did change the fluid is there a specific chf11s you all recommend? Looks like OE BMW is Pentosin.

[zivagolee]

If you guys get the cog light there should be codes. What are they?

I also have relocated my SMG pump to the drug bin and use Burkhart fluid. I do not get the cog light randomly under any circumstances (I had my car parked outside in rural PA two months ago for a week with the temp regularly hitting the teens and low twenties).

I always get code 59. I have changed out my clutch and throwout bearing already. The clutch slave should be easy to change.. just needs a flush which I will do anyway. I will use the standard Pentosin CHF-11.

[oceansize]

Yeah I am running the Burkhart relo and fluid. Also all of my starts have been cold weather (40 and below). oceansize it could be that the PLCD sensor you mention about is more sensitive to the cold weather and viscosity with age? I'm going to let it prime more and hope for warmer weather before I replace the slave cylinder.

If I did change the fluid is there a specific chf11s you all recommend? Looks like OE BMW is Pentosin.

Correct fluid. As for the sensor that is why I was asking the other guys what codes they get. If you are all getting the same code and don't have any issues then I would definitely hold off on replacing the Clutch Slave. I haven't experienced this issue so I can't comment for sure on a potential cause. When my clutch slave went out it simply died with no warning and that was that.

If you do replace the clutch slave do not compress the rod before install. There is a clip, or whatever, inside the clutch slave that will break after install and first usage allowing compression/decompression. Having that clip broken before you install makes it hard to align the rod to the dimple on the the plate that receives it.

[Irhase46m3]

I am getting the same code you are, to truly know if your slave cylinder is bad, you need to check the values in INPA for the clutch operation (i do t remember the actual value name atm) if this value is fluctuating it means the sensor within the slave cylinder is bad. If i recall correctly this value represents the distance it needs to travel, this is the clutch bite point during adaptation. In my case its a new cylinder and i still get the code.

You can also repair the unit, they do sell the compression metal bracket/ring that retains the rod to the cylinder, its the same repair kit as the non smg cylinder. Only difference is the sensor, if it goes bad the unit is done.

hope this helps.

[robgill]

I am getting the same code you are, to truly know if your slave cylinder is bad, you need to check the values in INPA for the clutch operation (i do t remember the actual value name atm) if this value is fluctuating it means the sensor within the slave cylinder is bad. If i recall correctly this value represents the distance it needs to travel, this is the clutch bite point during adaptation. In my case its a new cylinder and i still get the code.

You can also repair the unit, they do sell the compression metal bracket/ring that retains the rod to the cylinder, its the same repair kit as the non smg cylinder. Only difference is the sensor, if it goes bad the unit is done.

hope this helps.

As soon as it warmed up above 50 degrees here I stopped getting the code. Unfortunately we had a pretty hot day on Friday at 85 degrees and sitting in traffic I got another code. After that on low speed shifts from 1st and second I got a groaning sound. It shifted fine at normal driving speeds and was completely fine after is cooled down.

All if this makes me think it is the Burkart fluid. Seems like it has an operating range of like 50 to 75. I had no SMG issues prior to the relocation. I’m going to switch back to the OE fluid and see if that helps.

[oceansize]

As soon as it warmed up above 50 degrees here I stopped getting the code. Unfortunately we had a pretty hot day on Friday at 85 degrees and sitting in traffic I got another code. After that on low speed shifts from 1st and second I got a groaning sound. It shifted fine at normal driving speeds and was completely fine after is cooled down.

All if this makes me think it is the Burkart fluid. Seems like it has an operating range of like 50 to 75. I had no SMG issues prior to the relocation. I’m going to switch back to the OE fluid and see if that helps.

Let us know how it goes as I've been running Burkhart for a couple years here in TN where it gets really hot and humid come summer and have not experienced any issues.

What was the code?

Also, groaning can be air in the system.