What NON-coilover suspension do you prefer

[Obioban]

Yes I was talking about the GC Sleeves for the B6s compared to the B12 kit. Suspension is very subjective and dependent on the desired use, and there are more than a few schools of thought on what is best. I like the GC adjusters as it is somewhat of a know commodity for me (I ran it on a street Miata for years, with Konis) I don't want much drop, not only for the negative effects on the suspension geometry, but it's easier to lift up with a jack! And I think I might get them Fat Cat optimized down the road, so I lean toward the Bilsteins. Or at least have the option. The B12 kit is a cheaper that the B6 and GC sleeves, (and cheaper than the H&R Coilovers, but those have poorly designed rear adjusters/perch and poor spring rates) Options.. Thanks for all the info!

Thanks
Jonathan

I'd just go with the H&R coilovers, at that point. They have the shorter shock bodies, to retrain travel at lower ride heights, and can work with the stock strut hats/RSMs. They're also pretty cheap.... and FCM's preferred starting point. If you don't like the rear adjusters or spring rates, you can swap to any companies either.

What do you dislike about the H&R rear adjusters? I actually am kind of partial to them-- you can adjust ride heigh without removing the spring, which make corner balancing easier/faster, and they have a large surface area on the control arm, so they should be less likely to punch through it like some of the other ride height adjusters are prone to do (TCK, GC).

I can't imagine spending $3000-5000 on shock work (Fat Cats) on a setup you can't corner balance (B12s)...

[90mtx]

I was under the impression that the B12 rear adjusters were a weak point and known to break. At least that was at least a few instances I read. And, so are the H&R kit the B8 Bilsteins then if they have a shorter body than the B6? Our B12 kits are the B6 struts/shocks, I guess I assumed the H&R coilovers were the same thing just different strut color. Am I mistaken?

Thanks Jonathan

[Obioban]

I was under the impression that the B12 rear adjusters were a weak point and known to break. At least that was at least a few instances I read. And, so are the H&R kit the B8 Bilsteins then if they have a shorter body than the B6? Our B12 kits are the B6 struts/shocks, I guess I assumed the H&R coilovers were the same thing just different strut color. Am I mistaken?

Thanks Jonathan

I haven’t seen anyone fail the H&R rear ride height adjuster, but pretty much nobody runs the H&R coilovers— so that could just be a sample size thing. Mine haven't failed, but I’ve only put ~3000 miles/3 track events on them so it would be pretty terrible if they failed that fast!

With my H&R based Fat Cats setup set at 60% bump, 40% droop up front, with .5” rake (+- corner balance), I ended up at ~1/2” - 3/4” lower than stock. That either means they’re different shock bodies, or that H&R positions them differently. B8s and B6s have the same bump travel, so that wouldn’t make a difference, even if they were offered for sale on this chassis.

[90mtx]

Maybe I was thinking about the B12 rear adjusters and the poor spring rates for the H&R coilovers. Looking at a lot of info across multiple forums...it's time like this I miss the old M3F... Are the H&R 60mm ID springs? I was initially leaning to the H&R coilovers, but since I would be getting new springs anyway, that was why I was thinking about the B6 with the GC coilover sleeves. But H&R coilovers with different springs could be an ok choice for me.I think I read somewhere that you (Obioban) are running swift springs for your FCM set up. Did you get the spring rate you wanted from the FCM spreadsheet or was it a bit if trial and error?

Thanks
Jonathan

[K-Dawg]

I feel like my 325lb/550lb eibachs on GC B6s is the stiffest you'd want to go. It's bouncier than it should be, esp on the freeway. Feels great over all, and much more responsive up front than the B12 kit which has rates of 155lb/375-750lb (stock is 143lb/345-685lb).

How much bump travel do you have? I wonder if you're riding the bump stops?

B12s aren't adjustable anything. Non-adjustable B6 dampers and Eibach springs.

Does anybody know what the H&R coilover spring rates are? Also, I wonder much available (bump) travel the H&R dampers have compared to the B6 at a given ride height.

90mtx does your name refer to a 90 MTX Taurus SHO by chance?

[cobra]

I never understand the terminology "coilover". The front being a strut is inherently a coilover, and the rear is not designed to be a coilover - you should really reinforce the RSM if you do a true coilover. Most people just run adjustable spring mounts and there is no real downside...

[K-Dawg]

I never understand the terminology "coilover". The front being a strut is inherently a coilover, and the rear is not designed to be a coilover - you should really reinforce the RSM if you do a true coilover. Most people just run adjustable spring mounts and there is no real downside...

Correct, but in this application "coilover" means adjustable height springs.

[Nate047]

I don't remember if I replied to this earlier or not but I have Bilstein B6 shocks and Eibach springs which are perfect for a daily with PS4 or similar street tires IMO. Just the right amount of grunt, not too low to be annoying, don't have to C Walk into driveways, stiffer than stock by a little.

[Obioban]

Maybe I was thinking about the B12 rear adjusters and the poor spring rates for the H&R coilovers. Looking at a lot of info across multiple forums...it's time like this I miss the old M3F... Are the H&R 60mm ID springs? I was initially leaning to the H&R coilovers, but since I would be getting new springs anyway, that was why I was thinking about the B6 with the GC coilover sleeves. But H&R coilovers with different springs could be an ok choice for me.I think I read somewhere that you (Obioban) are running swift springs for your FCM set up. Did you get the spring rate you wanted from the FCM spreadsheet or was it a bit if trial and error?

Thanks
Jonathan

up front I'm running some Eibach "extreme travel" springs I found, that let you get more travel from a shorter spring. That let me get the entire spring perch above the front tires, so I can run wide front tires on track without needing such aggressive offsets that I have to run too much camber (aka, this lets me run a ET35 wheel with a 285 up front, at set the camber using a pyrometer instead of maxing it out to make it fit). To run the eibach springs, I converted the setup to 65mm springs using Ohlins perches, which are the same shock body thread— so they screw right on. In the rear I'm running a GC spring on one side and a TCK spring on the other, just because they happened to be the right rates and lengths for what I was looking for (I'm running different rates on the left and right sides of the car to get the same frequencies left/right with me alone in the car, as that's the driving situation I'm really optimizing for)-- both sides using the H&R ride height adjusters, because I didn't see any reason not to.

I dialed in my spring rates and sways on my previous Ohlins setup, till I had it pretty much exactly how I wanted it (neutral FRC, good amount of flat ride), and then just transferred over those rates to the new shock setup. That dialing in was a combination of the spreadsheet (flat ride, particularly getting the left and right side to have the same frequencies, and ballpark FRC) and assometer (tweaking the sway settings to get the FRC dialed in exactly to my taste). On the Ohlins setup I was running Swift springs-- they're still on my old Ohlins, which are now installed on a friends car.

285 Hoosier on a 9.5 ET35 wheel:

[90mtx]

90mtx does your name refer to a 90 MTX Taurus SHO by chance?[/QUOTE]

KDawg, kinda. It's a combo of the my old 90 Miata and a 94 SHO, manual of course. The SHO was a fun car in it's day, had many fun times in it. Sold it and got a Mazda 6 wagon, which fit our lifestyle, but it wasn't the SHO!

Jonathan

[r4dr]

up front I'm running some Eibach "extreme travel" springs I found, that let you get more travel from a shorter spring. That let me get the entire spring perch above the front tires, so I can run wide front tires on track without needing such aggressive offsets that I have to run too much camber (aka, this lets me run a ET35 wheel with a 285 up front, at set the camber using a pyrometer instead of maxing it out to make it fit). To run the eibach springs, I converted the setup to 65mm springs using Ohlins perches, which are the same shock body thread— so they screw right on.

Do you happen to have the Eibach part numbers handy? Curious to see which spring line you're using up front.

[Obioban]

Do you happen to have the Eibach part numbers handy? Curious to see which spring line you're using up front.

I do not, off hand. If you really need it, I can try to dig into my purchase history.

IIRC the 350lb spring came directly from Eibach, while the 375lb spring was a GC spring made by Eibach, that was also from their XT line but not listed as such (but I confirmed with Eibach on the phone that the 375 GC spring was built/designed as such).

[r4dr]

I do not, off hand. If you really need it, I can try to dig into my purchase history.

IIRC the 350lb spring came directly from Eibach, while the 375lb spring was a GC spring made by Eibach, that was also from their XT line but not listed as such (but I confirmed with Eibach on the phone that the 375 GC spring was built/designed as such).

No need, I found the parts. Were you really able to get away with a 6" spring, or are you running the 10"?

[Obioban]

No need, I found the parts. Were you really able to get away with a 6" spring, or are you running the 10"?

I’m on 6”. The shocks I’m running don’t have a ton of travel (though still more than I had with the Ohlins), so 6” was sufficient for my needs… and let me get the spring perch above the tire.

…. but that is why I valued the “extreme travel” eibach line. Had to make the most of my 6” 😜

[r4dr]

I’m on 6”. The shocks I’m running don’t have a ton of travel (though still more than I had with the Ohlins), so 6” was sufficient for my needs… and let me get the spring perch above the tire.

…. but that is why I valued the “extreme travel” eibach line. Had to make the most of my 6” 😜

Interesting. Your setup is giving me the idea of running 300 lb 6" XT springs up front on Ohlins for street duty, and keeping the stock 630 lb springs in the back.