MSS6x Flasher - Now released!

[Stringgrinder]

Sure.

But all this is completely off-topic and it would be customary to ask the question elsewhere. E90post has a lot of discussion related to all the issues you bring up.

Briefly, ISTA-D (diagnostic) and -P (programming) are dealer-level software. ISTA-P is smart in the sense that it will assess the update level (I-level) of all the modules in the vehicle then attempt to bring them all up to the most current status in one session. It's stupid in that you simply have to accept what it wants to do - it is difficult to apply selectively and with common sense. For this reason, you should ONLY use it with an ICOM adapter because that is what a dealer would use. BMW Standard Tools is a suite of factory-level tools - extremely powerful and streamlined. IMHO It can do more, do it more quickly and do it with a higher level of control than ISTA-P. However, there's a bit of a learning curve and it is mostly in German.

Neither of these is for making modifications to existing module programming outside of the special class called 'coding' - choosing between preset available factory options, like having the key fob put the top down or getting rid of the idiot warning screens on the CIC. Their value is primarily in providing quite sophisticated diagnostic options and in the case of ISTA-D, an extensive set of wiring diagrams, connector pinouts and locations and factory approved repair procedures. Carly is a sort of poor man's version of INPA and NCSExpert. Only you have to pay for that - BST and ISTA-D are free.

Neither of these or any other software package can do what it sounds like you want to do, which is integrate your android head unit into the I-drive system. A 'better' solution is to put the old head unit (CIC) back and install a 'Mr 12volt' carplay/android play adapter. It's the only one I know of that uses the MOST bus instead of AUX to introduce the audio. Read about it on e90post. The 'best' solution is to adapt a more modern BMW headunit (called NBT Evo). That's not for the faint of heart and it is very expensive ($2000-$2500).

Really?

[dpaul]

I wasn't really worried about the CIC as car already has the newest Android 11 head unit installed. But since you brought this up... what level of modification is possible using ISTA-P? My main issue with current setup is they ran the head unit audio through the Aux port, worst way to run audio really as without a preamp you lose A LOT. Car has indivudual audio so my annoyance is the loss of quality using the aux port. Would ISTA-P be capable enough, or is there another method to integrate head unit. My guess is they took the easy route and basically I have an expensive I-Pod right now, the display works seamlessly transitioning between android and i-drive, but the audio is sub par. Any insights on this issue?

Sure.

But all this is completely off-topic and it would be customary to ask the question elsewhere. E90post has a lot of discussion related to all the issues you bring up.

Briefly, ISTA-D (diagnostic) and -P (programming) are dealer-level software. ISTA-P is smart in the sense that it will assess the update level (I-level) of all the modules in the vehicle then attempt to bring them all up to the most current status in one session. It's stupid in that you simply have to accept what it wants to do - it is difficult to apply selectively and with common sense. For this reason, you should ONLY use it with an ICOM adapter because that is what a dealer would use. BMW Standard Tools is a suite of factory-level tools - extremely powerful and streamlined. IMHO It can do more, do it more quickly and do it with a higher level of control than ISTA-P. However, there's a bit of a learning curve and it is mostly in German.

Neither of these is for making modifications to existing module programming outside of the special class called 'coding' - choosing between preset available factory options, like having the key fob put the top down or getting rid of the idiot warning screens on the CIC. Their value is primarily in providing quite sophisticated diagnostic options and in the case of ISTA-D, an extensive set of wiring diagrams, connector pinouts and locations and factory approved repair procedures. Carly is a sort of poor man's version of INPA and NCSExpert. Only you have to pay for that - BST and ISTA-D are free.

Neither of these or any other software package can do what it sounds like you want to do, which is integrate your android head unit into the I-drive system. A 'better' solution is to put the old head unit (CIC) back and install a 'Mr 12volt' carplay/android play adapter. It's the only one I know of that uses the MOST bus instead of AUX to introduce the audio. Read about it on e90post. The 'best' solution is to adapt a more modern BMW headunit (called NBT Evo). That's not for the faint of heart and it is very expensive ($2000-$2500).

[Stringgrinder]

1) No, it is not worth getting an ICOM for what you say you want to do. If you want to update the programming for the CIC then yes. Otherwise, no. Only MOST bus modules need it. As for ISTA-P, I find no utility in it. It will insist on doing things you really might not want to do - you can't easily update just one, selected module.

I wasn't really worried about the CIC as car already has the newest Android 11 head unit installed. But since you brought this up... what level of modification is possible using ISTA-P? My main issue with current setup is they ran the head unit audio through the Aux port, worst way to run audio really as without a preamp you lose A LOT. Car has indivudual audio so my annoyance is the loss of quality using the aux port. Would ISTA-P be capable enough, or is there another method to integrate head unit. My guess is they took the easy route and basically I have an expensive I-Pod right now, the display works seamlessly transitioning between android and i-drive, but the audio is sub par. Any insights on this issue?

[Stringgrinder]

1) No, it is not worth getting an ICOM for what you say you want to do. If you want to update the programming for the CIC then yes. Otherwise, no. Only MOST bus modules need it. As for ISTA-P, I find no utility in it. It will insist on doing things you really might not want to do - you can't easily update just one, selected module.

2) No software will brick anything if you are only trying to read a module's memory. Keep in mind that it you have a custom tune you will not be able to read it with any of the commonly available packages. The tuners will encrypt the file they distribute and alter parameters in the DME so it cannot be read by OBDII. In addition, most MSS60 DMEs are programmed at the factory to prevent BDM reads so that option is generally out.

But if all you want to do is ascertain factory software level, you can do that with INPA (BMW standard tools) and any DCAN cable, even a junk Chinese knockoff. MSS6x flasher is also a great option and it is far easier to install. It will give you the installed software version info and read the entire flash - it will even give you the SK/ISN (although that is not read out from its original location in protected memory).

3) Good luck with logging - I've used BMWLogger - it is antique, awkward and inflexible. NOWHERE near as nice as MHD logger for the N54. It does work but if you find something better, let me know.

4) By far the best option for flashing the DME with program or calibration data that you've edited is MSS6x with the Bimmergeeks cable. It's been said multiple times but just to make sure, you MUST get either the Bimmergeeks cable (or one with properly updated firmware),or update the firmware yourself. If all you want to do is update the factory software to the most current version, just use WinKFP (BMW Standard tools). Again, you MUST use an updated cable

Thank you this is helpful. I just didn't want to put in this much work in anymore, but I guess I won't have a choice.

[Stringgrinder]

Sorry, does this have anything to do with the E90 M3?
Are trying to make the point that tuning tools are better developed on other platforms? That point has not escaped us. There are a whole lot more Subarus out there than M3s and the entry fee is a whole lot lower.
Your refusal to flash a canned tune is admirable. Please keep us informed of your progress.

Empire building at it's finest...

[Stringgrinder]

Sorry, does this have anything to do with the E90 M3?
Are trying to make the point that tuning tools are better developed on other platforms? That point has not escaped us. There are a whole lot more Subarus out there than M3s and the entry fee is a whole lot lower.
Your refusal to flash a canned tune is admirable. Please keep us informed of your progress.

Well, since I'm an M3 E93 owner and can't access my ECU without reading for several hours a day, purchasing 3 different cables without knowing which will work... still no idea what software to use... has a lot to do with the disfunction taking place for sure. Ok, I'll keep ya posted... but I guess you don't want to help?

[dpaul]

Check out how easy all this is for others... I have a Bimmergeeks cable. I refuse to flash a canned tune.

http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

https://www.evoscan.com/

Sorry, does this have anything to do with the E90 M3?
Are trying to make the point that tuning tools are better developed on other platforms? That point has not escaped us. There are a whole lot more Subarus out there than M3s and the entry fee is a whole lot lower.
Your refusal to flash a canned tune is admirable. Please keep us informed of your progress.

[Stringgrinder]

1) No, it is not worth getting an ICOM for what you say you want to do. If you want to update the programming for the CIC then yes. Otherwise, no. Only MOST bus modules need it. As for ISTA-P, I find no utility in it. It will insist on doing things you really might not want to do - you can't easily update just one, selected module.

2) No software will brick anything if you are only trying to read a module's memory. Keep in mind that it you have a custom tune you will not be able to read it with any of the commonly available packages. The tuners will encrypt the file they distribute and alter parameters in the DME so it cannot be read by OBDII. In addition, most MSS60 DMEs are programmed at the factory to prevent BDM reads so that option is generally out.

But if all you want to do is ascertain factory software level, you can do that with INPA (BMW standard tools) and any DCAN cable, even a junk Chinese knockoff. MSS6x flasher is also a great option and it is far easier to install. It will give you the installed software version info and read the entire flash - it will even give you the SK/ISN (although that is not read out from its original location in protected memory).

3) Good luck with logging - I've used BMWLogger - it is antique, awkward and inflexible. NOWHERE near as nice as MHD logger for the N54. It does work but if you find something better, let me know.

4) By far the best option for flashing the DME with program or calibration data that you've edited is MSS6x with the Bimmergeeks cable. It's been said multiple times but just to make sure, you MUST get either the Bimmergeeks cable (or one with properly updated firmware),or update the firmware yourself. If all you want to do is update the factory software to the most current version, just use WinKFP (BMW Standard tools). Again, you MUST use an updated cable

Check out how easy all this is for others... I have a Bimmergeeks cable. I refuse to flash a canned tune.

http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

https://www.evoscan.com/

[Stringgrinder]

1) No, it is not worth getting an ICOM for what you say you want to do. If you want to update the programming for the CIC then yes. Otherwise, no. Only MOST bus modules need it. As for ISTA-P, I find no utility in it. It will insist on doing things you really might not want to do - you can't easily update just one, selected module.

2) No software will brick anything if you are only trying to read a module's memory. Keep in mind that it you have a custom tune you will not be able to read it with any of the commonly available packages. The tuners will encrypt the file they distribute and alter parameters in the DME so it cannot be read by OBDII. In addition, most MSS60 DMEs are programmed at the factory to prevent BDM reads so that option is generally out.

But if all you want to do is ascertain factory software level, you can do that with INPA (BMW standard tools) and any DCAN cable, even a junk Chinese knockoff. MSS6x flasher is also a great option and it is far easier to install. It will give you the installed software version info and read the entire flash - it will even give you the SK/ISN (although that is not read out from its original location in protected memory).

3) Good luck with logging - I've used BMWLogger - it is antique, awkward and inflexible. NOWHERE near as nice as MHD logger for the N54. It does work but if you find something better, let me know.

4) By far the best option for flashing the DME with program or calibration data that you've edited is MSS6x with the Bimmergeeks cable. It's been said multiple times but just to make sure, you MUST get either the Bimmergeeks cable (or one with properly updated firmware),or update the firmware yourself. If all you want to do is update the factory software to the most current version, just use WinKFP (BMW Standard tools). Again, you MUST use an updated cable

Not helpful at all lol

[Stringgrinder]

this is primary a R&D thread... i don't think it has to be beneficial just to justify doing testing or trying things out.
That being said e92 m3 has a soft limiter. It is easier to see if this soft limiter by setting a higher rpm vs one thats too close to stock.
That way its easier to see if the changes i make to other mappings is fixes the issue or not.

Could be wrong, and still reading all posts so not sure if this was answered alreadt, but it's a safety feature in the TCU with DCT cars. When I'm in paddle mode the transmission will automatically shift based on TCU rev limits. I can't bounce my needle the car will shift to save the tranny. So you can flash an increased rev limiter on the ECU of a DCT car but you'll never get it unless the TCU matches. Most likely...

[dpaul]

Is it worth getting an ICOM and using ISTA-P for the E9x M3? Or will the KDAN be sufficient? Please excuse my non bimmer terminology but my goal is to pull current ROM and verify whether I have most current OEM version and whether the car has already had a canned or custom flash. Purchased 09 M3 E93 used but signs of possible modifications removed/stripped prior to sale etc. I have the bimmergeeks cable now and already coded features using Carly. I have enough performance power added mods, upcoming exhaust and I will be doing H pipe, or splitfire, and attempt to grab some low end torque although the rear is already squirrely enough haha so looking to get a solid foundation to properly e-tune the vehicle, which I've successfully done on Mitsubishi very easily. For those who like numbered questions instead of long winded paragraphs:
1) ICOM Next and ISTA-P for E9x M3, yes or no?
2) Best software/method to pull ROM without bricking?
3) Best method/software for logging pulls in 3rd?
4) Best method for flashing ROM without bricking?

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide, I'm finding the BMW tuning market somewhat of an exercise in empire building and very confusing compared to other makes.

Cheers,
James

1) No, it is not worth getting an ICOM for what you say you want to do. If you want to update the programming for the CIC then yes. Otherwise, no. Only MOST bus modules need it. As for ISTA-P, I find no utility in it. It will insist on doing things you really might not want to do - you can't easily update just one, selected module.

2) No software will brick anything if you are only trying to read a module's memory. Keep in mind that it you have a custom tune you will not be able to read it with any of the commonly available packages. The tuners will encrypt the file they distribute and alter parameters in the DME so it cannot be read by OBDII. In addition, most MSS60 DMEs are programmed at the factory to prevent BDM reads so that option is generally out.

But if all you want to do is ascertain factory software level, you can do that with INPA (BMW standard tools) and any DCAN cable, even a junk Chinese knockoff. MSS6x flasher is also a great option and it is far easier to install. It will give you the installed software version info and read the entire flash - it will even give you the SK/ISN (although that is not read out from its original location in protected memory).

3) Good luck with logging - I've used BMWLogger - it is antique, awkward and inflexible. NOWHERE near as nice as MHD logger for the N54. It does work but if you find something better, let me know.

4) By far the best option for flashing the DME with program or calibration data that you've edited is MSS6x with the Bimmergeeks cable. It's been said multiple times but just to make sure, you MUST get either the Bimmergeeks cable (or one with properly updated firmware),or update the firmware yourself. If all you want to do is update the factory software to the most current version, just use WinKFP (BMW Standard tools). Again, you MUST use an updated cable

[Stringgrinder]

Is it worth getting an ICOM and using ISTA-P for the E9x M3? Or will the KDAN be sufficient? Please excuse my non bimmer terminology but my goal is to pull current ROM and verify whether I have most current OEM version and whether the car has already had a canned or custom flash. Purchased 09 M3 E93 used but signs of possible modifications removed/stripped prior to sale etc. I have the bimmergeeks cable now and already coded features using Carly. I have enough performance power added mods, upcoming exhaust and I will be doing H pipe, or splitfire, and attempt to grab some low end torque although the rear is already squirrely enough haha so looking to get a solid foundation to properly e-tune the vehicle, which I've successfully done on Mitsubishi very easily. For those who like numbered questions instead of long winded paragraphs:
1) ICOM Next and ISTA-P for E9x M3, yes or no?
2) Best software/method to pull ROM without bricking?
3) Best method/software for logging pulls in 3rd?
4) Best method for flashing ROM without bricking?

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide, I'm finding the BMW tuning market somewhat of an exercise in empire building and very confusing compared to other makes.

Cheers,
James

[tdott]

If by "new" DME, you mean a used one obtained from a salvage yard, then yes, absolutely. I just did this.

Yes sorry that is what I meant. Did you do this on a s85 or s65?

Someone said it may cause limp mode on a s65, but I haven't tested it yet.

[dpaul]

Just had a thought about this section here:


If a new DME is used, can the EWS delete that was found in the other thread be applied to the new DME, can that then work without the need to burn the new key into the CAS?

- Trevor

If by "new" DME, you mean a used one obtained from a salvage yard, then yes, absolutely. I just did this.

[Stringgrinder]

Hello all! Nice to finally find an open source community/discussion for the s65. Former Mitsubishi guy used to easy access with Tactrix and EvoScan. I'm hoping to bridge some coding wizards to help flush things out, these engines deserve options. I've spent a few months now researching what options are available off the shelf and I can see it has been a tightly held market. Still reading through all the posts, very excited with what I'm seeing so far.