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    Anyone here running upgraded injectors on a full na build with airbox and 280/272 cams? I had a full top end rebuild with schrick 280/272 cams and some intake porting and made 359 whp on a mustang dyno with hassan but he noted my stock injectors were almost maxed out to keep the afr safe up top and recommended I upgrade to 440cc injectors. Shortly after I noticed my wideband reporting 10.9-11.2 wot consistently which is way too rich. He had to lean the wot trims out and now its perfect at 12.5-12.8 which is right where it needs to be, but I have other issues... Primarily the car idle dips coming to a stop when I clutch in, there's a random hiccup at 3k, and the big annoyance is blipping. I track this car a lot and drive it very spiritedly on backroads and can tell you this is a tuning issue. If I am off the throttle for more than 1-2 seconds and go to blip it will randomly miss where other times it will overrev. Annoying af because that's what makes it seem like you can't drive while also being sketch if I were to lockup the rearend at 100mph etc.

    My buddy also has a tune from hassan with similar issues but he's completely stock motor. Without certainty I am going to get a retune but I'm torn on Hassan vs PCS. Drivability is huge to me and Hassan told me multiple times he could achieve STOCK drivability with a MAP tune on CSL dme which I'll be honest, it has fallen short of expectations. The car spends most of its time at redline where it is indeed safe, but around town its junk.

    He also told me that a street tune after the dyno was unnecessary to sort out my complaints and that the dyno would uncover it all, but that is far from true because the dyno can't replicate situations of no temporary no load situations like you would encounter when you're not at wot and are downshifting or just coasting to a corner on the street and go to rev match a few seconds later.

    At this point, I'm one trying to confirm if I really need bigger injectors (doesn't sound like it), but most importantly, do I give Hassan another chance or find someone else? If I don't need to bother with injectors, I think I'm just going to pay him for a live street tune and have him datalog and adjust for all my issues as they happen. Don't really see any other way.

    I bring this all up because I know most guys don't pay close enough attention to the fine details and are only concerned about WOT and power but I ask you all to look at your current tunes and report back if you notice similar issues that you have "adapted to" because I can say with absolute certainty a stock m3 does not have these drivability issues.
    2003 E46 M3 TiAg/Cinnamon 6MT
    2005 E46 330i ZHP Imola/Sand



    | Karbonius | Schrick | Supertech | Volk | Recaro | FCM | SuperSprint | Turner | Hyperco | GC | PFC | VAC | OMP | Radium Engineering | MPRacing |

    Instagram:@thegenius46m

    NorCal DME Programming and Coding Expert

    Comment


      Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post
      If I am off the throttle for more than 1-2 seconds and go to blip it will randomly miss
      Mine does this occasionally running the standard CSL tune, although typically only at low rpm e.g. small blips down when street driving. Never had it happen on track or with a big downshift. might not necassarily be Hassan's doing

      Comment


        Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post
        Anyone here running upgraded injectors on a full na build with airbox and 280/272 cams? I had a full top end rebuild with schrick 280/272 cams and some intake porting and made 359 whp on a mustang dyno with hassan but he noted my stock injectors were almost maxed out to keep the afr safe up top and recommended I upgrade to 440cc injectors. Shortly after I noticed my wideband reporting 10.9-11.2 wot consistently which is way too rich. He had to lean the wot trims out and now its perfect at 12.5-12.8 which is right where it needs to be, but I have other issues... Primarily the car idle dips coming to a stop when I clutch in, there's a random hiccup at 3k, and the big annoyance is blipping. I track this car a lot and drive it very spiritedly on backroads and can tell you this is a tuning issue. If I am off the throttle for more than 1-2 seconds and go to blip it will randomly miss where other times it will overrev. Annoying af because that's what makes it seem like you can't drive while also being sketch if I were to lockup the rearend at 100mph etc.

        My buddy also has a tune from hassan with similar issues but he's completely stock motor. Without certainty I am going to get a retune but I'm torn on Hassan vs PCS. Drivability is huge to me and Hassan told me multiple times he could achieve STOCK drivability with a MAP tune on CSL dme which I'll be honest, it has fallen short of expectations. The car spends most of its time at redline where it is indeed safe, but around town its junk.

        He also told me that a street tune after the dyno was unnecessary to sort out my complaints and that the dyno would uncover it all, but that is far from true because the dyno can't replicate situations of no temporary no load situations like you would encounter when you're not at wot and are downshifting or just coasting to a corner on the street and go to rev match a few seconds later.

        At this point, I'm one trying to confirm if I really need bigger injectors (doesn't sound like it), but most importantly, do I give Hassan another chance or find someone else? If I don't need to bother with injectors, I think I'm just going to pay him for a live street tune and have him datalog and adjust for all my issues as they happen. Don't really see any other way.

        I bring this all up because I know most guys don't pay close enough attention to the fine details and are only concerned about WOT and power but I ask you all to look at your current tunes and report back if you notice similar issues that you have "adapted to" because I can say with absolute certainty a stock m3 does not have these drivability issues.
        We definitely pay attention to the details. The small hiccup I have as well I just dont have the cams. From his words its a quick fix on the road, I will sort it out with him soon. And for me its only off throttle at around 3k rpm, drivability around town is great for me. I'll report back as soon as I can get it dialed in more.
        2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
        M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

        IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

        Comment


          Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post
          Anyone here running upgraded injectors on a full na build with airbox and 280/272 cams? I had a full top end rebuild with schrick 280/272 cams and some intake porting and made 359 whp on a mustang dyno with hassan but he noted my stock injectors were almost maxed out to keep the afr safe up top and recommended I upgrade to 440cc injectors. Shortly after I noticed my wideband reporting 10.9-11.2 wot consistently which is way too rich. He had to lean the wot trims out and now its perfect at 12.5-12.8 which is right where it needs to be, but I have other issues... Primarily the car idle dips coming to a stop when I clutch in, there's a random hiccup at 3k, and the big annoyance is blipping. I track this car a lot and drive it very spiritedly on backroads and can tell you this is a tuning issue. If I am off the throttle for more than 1-2 seconds and go to blip it will randomly miss where other times it will overrev. Annoying af because that's what makes it seem like you can't drive while also being sketch if I were to lockup the rearend at 100mph etc.

          My buddy also has a tune from hassan with similar issues but he's completely stock motor. Without certainty I am going to get a retune but I'm torn on Hassan vs PCS. Drivability is huge to me and Hassan told me multiple times he could achieve STOCK drivability with a MAP tune on CSL dme which I'll be honest, it has fallen short of expectations. The car spends most of its time at redline where it is indeed safe, but around town its junk.

          He also told me that a street tune after the dyno was unnecessary to sort out my complaints and that the dyno would uncover it all, but that is far from true because the dyno can't replicate situations of no temporary no load situations like you would encounter when you're not at wot and are downshifting or just coasting to a corner on the street and go to rev match a few seconds later.

          At this point, I'm one trying to confirm if I really need bigger injectors (doesn't sound like it), but most importantly, do I give Hassan another chance or find someone else? If I don't need to bother with injectors, I think I'm just going to pay him for a live street tune and have him datalog and adjust for all my issues as they happen. Don't really see any other way.

          I bring this all up because I know most guys don't pay close enough attention to the fine details and are only concerned about WOT and power but I ask you all to look at your current tunes and report back if you notice similar issues that you have "adapted to" because I can say with absolute certainty a stock m3 does not have these drivability issues.
          I have a similar hesitation sometimes when I clutch in. I’ve had it stall very occasionally. 288/280 cams with a stock airbox and Hassan tune.

          Comment


            Originally posted by CrisSilberGrau View Post

            We definitely pay attention to the details. The small hiccup I have as well I just dont have the cams. From his words its a quick fix on the road, I will sort it out with him soon. And for me its only off throttle at around 3k rpm, drivability around town is great for me. I'll report back as soon as I can get it dialed in more.
            Yeah it’s funny I planned this out with him 6 months prior and asked about doing a street tune AFTER the dyno to fix any drivability issues the dyno couldn’t replicate but he told me during the dyno session that was now unnecessary? Like wtf?

            So yeah I think at this point a street retune on the phone where I literally have a friend hold my laptop in the passenger seat and tell Hassan exactly what is happening in certain situations so he can pick it up, that’s the only way to fix this.

            But main question, are you all running stock injectors? I’m going to take a look later this week in tunerpro and see if I can find the fueling tables to see what the duty cycle is if I can figure it out. Anyone know that variable in tuner pro btw?

            If I don’t need to upgrade injectors to 440cc, then I don’t need to do another dyno tune and street. Can go straight to street and fix this.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            2003 E46 M3 TiAg/Cinnamon 6MT
            2005 E46 330i ZHP Imola/Sand



            | Karbonius | Schrick | Supertech | Volk | Recaro | FCM | SuperSprint | Turner | Hyperco | GC | PFC | VAC | OMP | Radium Engineering | MPRacing |

            Instagram:@thegenius46m

            NorCal DME Programming and Coding Expert

            Comment


              Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post

              Yeah it’s funny I planned this out with him 6 months prior and asked about doing a street tune AFTER the dyno to fix any drivability issues the dyno couldn’t replicate but he told me during the dyno session that was now unnecessary? Like wtf?

              So yeah I think at this point a street retune on the phone where I literally have a friend hold my laptop in the passenger seat and tell Hassan exactly what is happening in certain situations so he can pick it up, that’s the only way to fix this.

              But main question, are you all running stock injectors? I’m going to take a look later this week in tunerpro and see if I can find the fueling tables to see what the duty cycle is if I can figure it out. Anyone know that variable in tuner pro btw?

              If I don’t need to upgrade injectors to 440cc, then I don’t need to do another dyno tune and street. Can go straight to street and fix this.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Have you spoken to HassanEido About this issue in depth and planned to do the fix/street tune etc? I have been dealing with him from day one for my car and all my customers vehicles and he has been nothing but amazing. He has gone out of his way to sort stuff out for me.
              Last edited by 0-60motorsports; 06-29-2022, 09:19 AM.

              Comment


                thegenius46m I don't recall you told me about this last I heard from you was when we dyno tuned it...mind you I talk to so many people I might be mistaken, and I'm never on the forum unless someone tags me I don't have time to be honest. if you have drivablity issues and want to fix it, I can fix it, but I'll need to know something is wrong first
                i usually wait for clients to reach out, I barely keep track of who has what and needs help with what, people have to talk to me for me to know , otherwise I would assume all is fine and well in the world, and I'm never unresponsive.
                I wish you brought it up rather than asking online lol . You were actually running out of injector low rpm, I could command all of the fueling and it barely played nice. Mind you this is at wot . I've fixed 99% of cars I tuned , all csl based cars have this issue . Let me know if you want a road tune to fix it 👍
                Last edited by HassanEido; 06-29-2022, 03:36 PM.
                385.7whp 288.8 wtq :
                -CSL airbox ( custom)
                -280 272 Cat cams
                -Custom SSV2, modified for a bigger collector
                -Custom Section 1 2 and 3: oversized to 2.5 inch and en E9xM Xpipe
                -TMS pullies
                -Electric Fan
                -HTE performance Tune :P

                PM for performance Tunes

                IG: https://www.instagram.com/hte_performance_tuning/

                Comment


                  Actually just checked our conversation, u mentioned part throttle, and I told you I can simply fix it, u never brought it up again haha or asked to schedule or anything, I work 16 hours a day on a short day, if people don't reach out ,I cant remember, then you asked about injectors and gave you advice in that regard, that was several months ago . I wait for clients to come to me if they have an issue, I literally can't keep up, and most ppl have zero issues , have no reason to assume otherwise: )
                  385.7whp 288.8 wtq :
                  -CSL airbox ( custom)
                  -280 272 Cat cams
                  -Custom SSV2, modified for a bigger collector
                  -Custom Section 1 2 and 3: oversized to 2.5 inch and en E9xM Xpipe
                  -TMS pullies
                  -Electric Fan
                  -HTE performance Tune :P

                  PM for performance Tunes

                  IG: https://www.instagram.com/hte_performance_tuning/

                  Comment


                    i had a similar issue. Fixed with new O2 sensors...

                    Comment


                      Just a little update here...

                      Ive been working with Hassan over the past month and it appears there was some miscommunication between us one way or the other months back. Either way doesn't matter because he went out of the way to make this right and gave me a lot of insight that other guys aren't going to tell you which says a lot about his character and expertise here.

                      Big one is the injectors... that was my primary problem here. My fuel trims were maxed out all across the board, not just up top so he really had to dial back the tune originally to keep everything safe due to hardware limitations. I thought it was only in the higher revs so blamed a tuning issue. Clearly not solely the case here. I upgraded to EV14 Bosch 550cc injectors and it is night and day.

                      Hassan was almost completely able to fix the drivability issue I had before because he had to detune for the lack of fueling from the stock injectors.

                      With porting, schrick 280/272 cams, upgraded and lighter single groove valves, and the 550cc injectors the car is still making power on the dyno at 8600rpm without drop off and it feels considerably faster from 3k+. With stock injector the power dropped off at 8200rpm and the car drove like crap imho. Bucking and hesitation is virtually gone and drivability is significantly improved. The engine feels smoother and pulls significantly harder all the way from 3k up.

                      My head is flowing so much air that he had to add a significant amount of fuel to get the AFRs in check and the result is exactly what I was looking for, a stock like driving experience with significantly more power.

                      Long story short, if you do cams or anything more than basic bolt ons, just do yourself a favor and upgrade to a higher cc injector. Stock is a genuine waste of time and the tuning will suffer greatly.
                      Last edited by thegenius46m; 08-10-2022, 11:16 AM.
                      2003 E46 M3 TiAg/Cinnamon 6MT
                      2005 E46 330i ZHP Imola/Sand



                      | Karbonius | Schrick | Supertech | Volk | Recaro | FCM | SuperSprint | Turner | Hyperco | GC | PFC | VAC | OMP | Radium Engineering | MPRacing |

                      Instagram:@thegenius46m

                      NorCal DME Programming and Coding Expert

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post
                        Just a little update here...

                        Ive been working with Hassan over the past month and it appears there was some miscommunication between us one way or the other months back. Either way doesn't matter because he went out of the way to make this right and gave me a lot of insight that other guys aren't going to tell you which says a lot about his character and expertise here.

                        Big one is the injectors... that was my primary problem here. My fuel trims were maxed out all across the board, not just up top so he really had to dial back the tune originally to keep everything safe due to hardware limitations. I thought it was only in the higher revs so blamed a tuning issue. Clearly not solely the case here. I upgraded to EV14 Bosch 550cc injectors and it is night and day.

                        Hassan was almost completely able to fix the drivability issue I had before because he had to detune for the lack of fueling from the stock injectors.

                        With porting, schrick 280/272 cams, upgraded and lighter single groove valves, and the 550cc injectors the car is still making power on the dyno at 8600rpm without drop off and it feels considerably faster from 3k+. With stock injector the power dropped off at 8200rpm and the car drove like crap imho. Bucking and hesitation is virtually gone and drivability is significantly improved. The engine feels smoother and pulls significantly harder all the way from 3k up.

                        My head is flowing so much air that he had to add a significant amount of fuel to get the AFRs in check and the result is exactly what I was looking for, a stock like driving experience with significantly more power.

                        Long story short, if you do cams or anything more than basic bolt ons, just do yourself a favor and upgrade to a higher cc injector. Stock is a genuine waste of time and the tuning will suffer greatly.
                        Hey, could I ask where you picked up the EV14 Bosch 550cc injectors? Is there a particular version or part # that is needed to work with the s54?

                        I am changing my car from a supercharger setup to an NA build with a CSL airbox, full Supersprint exhaust, and possibly Schrick 280/272 cams on a stock head. I will have to replace my current injectors as they are for the supercharger setup and was having problems finding a replacement set.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by bmw m3 s50 View Post

                          Hey, could I ask where you picked up the EV14 Bosch 550cc injectors? Is there a particular version or part # that is needed to work with the s54?

                          I am changing my car from a supercharger setup to an NA build with a CSL airbox, full Supersprint exhaust, and possibly Schrick 280/272 cams on a stock head. I will have to replace my current injectors as they are for the supercharger setup and was having problems finding a replacement set.
                          What size are your current ones?

                          I have these

                          2003 E46 M3 TiAg/Cinnamon 6MT
                          2005 E46 330i ZHP Imola/Sand



                          | Karbonius | Schrick | Supertech | Volk | Recaro | FCM | SuperSprint | Turner | Hyperco | GC | PFC | VAC | OMP | Radium Engineering | MPRacing |

                          Instagram:@thegenius46m

                          NorCal DME Programming and Coding Expert

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by thegenius46m View Post

                            What size are your current ones?

                            I have these

                            https://polmaxracing.com/index.php/p...-m3-01-02-z3m/


                            Not sure of the size since they came with the supercharger kit. I plan on keeping those injectors with the supercharger kit and wanted to purchase a new set for when I make the conversion to NA.

                            I saw those shortly after I posted. They seem to be the ones that Hassan recommends from his other posts. Did you have any issues buying them from that company?

                            I assume they are plug and play without needing anything else?

                            Comment


                              Not saying anything positive or negative about that particular vendor (I know nothing about them), but there are a TON of very convincing Chinese fake Bosch injectors out there, than can lean your engine to failure when they give up. I would be suspicious of any good deals, and not want to buy this product from anyone who isn't an established company with a name to lose.


                              2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                              2012 LMB/Black 128i
                              2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

                              Comment


                                FCP sells those too. They are ~$180 more for a set of 6 (which is not insignificant considering the total price), but you know for sure they're legit and they're free for life

                                2002 Topasblau M3 - Coupe - 6MT - Karbonius CSL Airbox - MSS54HP Conversion - Kassel MAP - SSV1 - HJS - PCS Tune - Beisan - MK60 Swap - ZCP Rack - Nogaros - AutoSolutions - 996 Brembos - Slon - CMP - VinceBar - Koni - Eibach - BlueBus - Journal

                                2012 Alpinweiss 128i - Coupe - 6AT - Slicktop - Manual Seats - Daily - Journal

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