Suspension & Brakes E46M platform.

[repoman89]

Hi guys,

I don't want to open a new thread and hope continuing this thread is ok.
I am thinking about replacing my brake system aka BBK. However after reading and researching I've read a lot that the stock brakes are not bad compared to a lot BBK "upgrades".
My initial plan was fitting BMW F30 Brembo 4-pot calipers with CSL rotors in the front and 996 calipers in the rear. Even though the brake bias will only slightly shift to the rear by 1.36 % (F 65.51 % R 34.49 %) I am worried about loosing stopping power. Total piston area in the front will decrease about 11 % which also leads to a decrease in torque of about 11 %. For the rear I will loose about 5 % in total piston area which therefore leads to a loss of 5 % of torque. Total decrease in piston area/torque is about 16 %.
I am not an expert nor have I any experience with that, I was just playing around with the calculator and trying to understand what the outcome numbers will mean in the end. Can someone explain if these 16 % loss in total piston area/torque will bring me 16 % less stopping power?

What that means is that with the pedal on the floor, you will be supplying 16% less torque to the rotors. In practice, ABS will be preventing you from locking up your tires well before pedal to the floor, so what you will have is longer pedal travel for a given brake torque. I find this to be a good thing with my 996 setup .. heel/toe is easier at the ABS threshold on track and to me, modulation and feel is improved.

Total stopping power by moving bias rearward will probably improve slightly but either way 1-2% won't be enough to notice.

[Tbonem3]

What year is the car? Post 09/02 is mk60? Go for it! If it's a 2001-2002 car, sell the car before upgrading anything. I kid I kid. Sort of. Sell the car.

[m3_sancho]

What year is the car? Post 09/02 is mk60? Go for it! If it's a 2001-2002 car, sell the car before upgrading anything. I kid I kid. Sort of. Sell the car.

Its a 2004. So you're saying the upgrade will be worth it?

[heinzboehmer]

What year is the car? Post 09/02 is mk60? Go for it! If it's a 2001-2002 car, sell the car before upgrading anything. I kid I kid. Sort of. Sell the car.

Hey you could also spend thousands of dollars and tens (if not hundreds) of hours swapping out the MK20 for an MK60.

Selling the car isn't bad advice in hindsight...

[Tbonem3]

I know of someone who did that!

[Cronenberged]

Its a 2004. So you're saying the upgrade will be worth it?

You have the MK60 booster so you're good.

[mrgizmo04]

Hi guys,

I don't want to open a new thread and hope continuing this thread is ok.
I am thinking about replacing my brake system aka BBK. However after reading and researching I've read a lot that the stock brakes are not bad compared to a lot BBK "upgrades".
My initial plan was fitting BMW F30 Brembo 4-pot calipers with CSL rotors in the front and 996 calipers in the rear. Even though the brake bias will only slightly shift to the rear by 1.36 % (F 65.51 % R 34.49 %) I am worried about loosing stopping power. Total piston area in the front will decrease about 11 % which also leads to a decrease in torque of about 11 %. For the rear I will loose about 5 % in total piston area which therefore leads to a loss of 5 % of torque. Total decrease in piston area/torque is about 16 %.
I am not an expert nor have I any experience with that, I was just playing around with the calculator and trying to understand what the outcome numbers will mean in the end. Can someone explain if these 16 % loss in total piston area/torque will bring me 16 % less stopping power?

How frequently do you currently engage ABS during your driving and why are you looking to upgrade? What problem in stock system are trying to solve?

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[Tbonem3]

How frequently do you currently engage ABS during your driving and why are you looking to upgrade? What problem in stock system are trying to solve?

The ugly sliding caliper look

[mrgizmo04]

The ugly sliding caliper look

If that's the only problem, then no need to stress over the numbers

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[m3_sancho]

The ugly sliding caliper look

Yes, this is pretty much the reason. However I didn't want to make thing worse hence the reason for playing with the numbers.
And it's just the fun changing something on the car. However as I said it should not make things worse.

[Casa de Mesa]

What year is the car? Post 09/02 is mk60? Go for it! If it's a 2001-2002 car, sell the car before upgrading anything. I kid I kid. Sort of. Sell the car.

My car is 09/02 and has mk60. So perhaps post 08/02?

[EthanolTurbo]

My car is 09/02 and has mk60. So perhaps post 08/02?

My car is also 09/02. Probably made at the same time since they're both Topaz.

[01SG]

Yes, this is pretty much the reason. However I didn't want to make thing worse hence the reason for playing with the numbers.
And it's just the fun changing something on the car. However as I said it should not make things worse.

That is a lot of to spend on something nobody but yourself notices. Not much sense in changing the brakes for a street car. Have you already got a carbon roof and airbox? Of all the places to spend money on a street m3, brakes are low on the list.

[puma1824]

I have similar requirements and opted for Eibach Pro-Street Coilvers, GroundControl Street Camber Plates, + OEM CSL/CS Calipers & Disks. It is important to note I have NOT driven this setup yet as my car is still being built but hope to have it back soon.

I chose Eibach Coilovers over the others only because it was a simpler design with no dampening adjustments, which is also a con to many if not all people but for me, I don't mind. The GroundContol camber plates are different than typical camber plates because they include dampening AND have the caster and correct M3 angle. I opted for CSL/CS brakes because I wanted to keep the unsprung weight low because I'm running heavy 19" BMW 163M wheels and don't think because of my 99% street use I will need the additional stopping power of BBKs.

There's not much out there on these Eibach but here are a few references:
User Review (e46Fanatics) 1
User Review (m3Cutters) 2

Eibach Pro-Street Coilovers (NOTE: There's a Euro version that is different and is supposedly rebranded KW1)
GroundControl Street Camber Plates

[BBB]

Kindly adding some 2 cents on this. My car has Stoptech ST40 in the front and I can say you'll absolutely appreciate the performance (and of course the looks) on street driving. Pad selection is going to be important since going too aggressive will kill the progressive feel that you'll still likely want on the street. Replacing pads is quite easy as well - I'd say preferred over Brembo calipers since those have a pin you need to punch out (not to say that Brembos are hard to swap pads, just an extra step you won't deal with on Stoptechs). This is my first car with BBK and I'm loving it.

For reference, my car is also my daily driver (my only car). I do go to the track 2-3 times a year along with a few other auto-x/driving events. I'm running Project M HC-CS pads. Stock brake booster on '02 car.