Timing/Vanos related codes? unable to find source of the issue P0015,P0010, P0185

[M3llowM3]

Update for anyone interested.
I found the 2 wires to my egt sensor were clamped between the black plastic cover and the valve cover. Repaired the wires and the problem persisted.
I ordered a new cam sensor connector and pins and installed it to the existing wiring and the problem has been cleared for almost 1000km now. Must have been loose pins or a bad connection.

Big thanks to everyone to took their time to offer their opinions or suggestions on the issue.

[M3llowM3]

Reviving this in 2024.

Just had these 3 codes return with a CEL .

Not really sure where move with troubleshooting this now.

Car has been out of storage for a couple weeks now, done about 1000km on it and has been driving great since I pulled it out, there was also no issues to be mentioned for all of 2023 driving season. Cycled the fuel in the tank a couple times already so the fuel is all new and fresh.

I did notice 1-2 times on cold start, what sounded almost like a small backfire, but it had rarely occurred, and never threw and CEL. However, I never scanned the codes when this occurred.

Today, I drove about 100km home, car was driving great, and I stopped at the gas station by my house to top up. When I started the car after re-fueling is when the CEL came back, and again a small backfire on startup. Drove 5 mins home, ran inside grabbed the laptop and scanned with INPA to find the same 3 codes, 10, 15, and 185I had when i initially made this post. I cleared them, and all three immediately came back, but no CEL. Cleared again couple times and they returned, but at some point I cleared the codes, and only code 10 and 15 returned. I included snaps from this post which help to identify the codes.



Now, for those who didn't read this whole post, I had tried several Beisan rebuilt units, borrowed a couple from my friends, and I even repaired my initial one using Beisan's guide and cutting it open and reflowing the solder on the connector pins.
I tried a new exhaust cam sensor, and I also repinned the exhaust cam sensor with a new OEM connector (which i thought fixed my problems last time).
I put a multimeter to the pins on the exhaust cam senor and tested the voltage variation from 0>5>0>5 volts and so on, which i believe indicates the sensor itself is working and functioning?


Kind of lost here now at this point and feeling a bit defeated now that these codes have come back.
Any feedback or troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated.

[Stilt]

Reviving this in 2024.

Just had these 3 codes return with a CEL .

Not really sure where move with troubleshooting this now.

Car has been out of storage for a couple weeks now, done about 1000km on it and has been driving great since I pulled it out, there was also no issues to be mentioned for all of 2023 driving season. Cycled the fuel in the tank a couple times already so the fuel is all new and fresh.

I did notice 1-2 times on cold start, what sounded almost like a small backfire, but it had rarely occurred, and never threw and CEL. However, I never scanned the codes when this occurred.

Today, I drove about 100km home, car was driving great, and I stopped at the gas station by my house to top up. When I started the car after re-fueling is when the CEL came back, and again a small backfire on startup. Drove 5 mins home, ran inside grabbed the laptop and scanned with INPA to find the same 3 codes, 10, 15, and 185I had when i initially made this post. I cleared them, and all three immediately came back, but no CEL. Cleared again couple times and they returned, but at some point I cleared the codes, and only code 10 and 15 returned. I included snaps from this post which help to identify the codes.



Now, for those who didn't read this whole post, I had tried several Beisan rebuilt units, borrowed a couple from my friends, and I even repaired my initial one using Beisan's guide and cutting it open and reflowing the solder on the connector pins.
I tried a new exhaust cam sensor, and I also repinned the exhaust cam sensor with a new OEM connector (which i thought fixed my problems last time).
I put a multimeter to the pins on the exhaust cam senor and tested the voltage variation from 0>5>0>5 volts and so on, which i believe indicates the sensor itself is working and functioning?


Kind of lost here now at this point and feeling a bit defeated now that these codes have come back.
Any feedback or troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated.

Lol, this happened to me Wednesday. The car threw codes 10 and 15, but not 185, which is for the exhaust cam sensor, which I already changed. I believe that because of the design and the position, the sensor gets cooked and just says bye-bye. Put the new sensor in, in about 10 minutes, 5 minutes of burning my hand because I am impatient, and now the code is gone.

[sapote]

1. I found the 2 wires to my egt sensor were clamped between the black plastic cover and the valve cover.
2. Reviving this in 2024. Just had these 3 codes return with a CEL .

1. What is EGT sensor? EX cam sensor?
2. Bypass the questionalble factor sensor 3 wires by cut them out and splicing 3 new wires as I suggested. The root cause is the sensor signal is unreliable.

[sapote]

I wonder if OP still has the car. It would be nice if people closed the thread properly as I want to know the root cause too.

[M3llowM3]

I wonder if OP still has the car. It would be nice if people closed the thread properly as I want to know the root cause too.

i do still have the car, and have not found the root of the issue. I parked it last April, and then I had some big problems with my daily last summer so unfortunately was never able to get the m3 looked at. I am now waiting to hopefully get it looked at this spring, but I fear the intermittent nature of this issue will bring difficulty, as in 2022-2023 i had this issue pop up, and when i took it for diag, no symptoms were showing, and then the issue veered its head again in 2024.

I spoke to 2 shops about it, and one (the BMW mechanic 95%+ M guys take their car to in my area), said that it could be potentially an oil pump issue, since the vanos isnt adjusting the timing when it needs, they think its an overall oil pressure issue. which i am not inclined to agree with, since the car still drives just fine and no indication of low oil pressure.

Another shop (also reputable M shop in the area) agreed with me that it probably wasnt a main oil pump issue, but potentially something deeper inside the vanos, and suggested essentially a full vanos teardown/inspection to diag and go from there.

Either way both shops told me to expect downtime with a bill of 2-3kcad, likely more in 2025 since our economy is in the gutter.


And don't worry, i have every intention of closing this thread off, once i find the issue.

[ATB88]

Well, fuck. Got my car back from the body shop today after 100 days without it, during which time I assume it wasn't running other than to move it.

Within 5 miles out of the shop, I got a Service Engine Soon light on the dash. Scanned codes when I got home: 10 (x0A), 15 (x0F), 185 (xB9). Found and read this thread.

Details about my car and symptoms:

-Full Beisan VANOS treatment (including solenoid pack) 7 years and ~50k miles ago
-Exhaust cam sensor replaced (with VNE which is OE) about 5 years and ~30k miles ago
-Car is a 2002 that was originally an SMG that has been manually swapped (just like OP's!) and has undergone a CSL airbox conversion with an HP DME from Kassel (just like OP!)
-Car drove great the entire way home from the body shop, no sign of degradation of engine performance
-Have never ever had any of these codes before, nor any VANOS codes at all
-When I clear the codes, they all come back quickly (just like OP)
-I actually re-did my VANOS/cam timing 3k miles ago last November because I had the valve cover off for a valve adjustment, checked timing and noticed it was a bit off. I feel reasonably confident that I nailed it this time. But I also did when I re-timed it in 2020...
-I also have one other code: 143 (x8F). I've had this code intermittently for a while. Indicates issue with the DME e-box fan, which I expect has failed. I have a new one I've been meaning to put in. Could be consistent with electrical/DME issue. Could be a red herring.

After reading this whole thread, I'm worried that I'm in for a very annoying time...

OP any updates???

[sapote]

P0010 (x0A), P0015 (x0F), P0185 (xB9). Found and read this thread.

Inpa hex 0A is not P0010 (and other codes). Pxxxx is OBD codes and they are not decimal equivalent of the hex number to decimal conversion, so you don't want to list them as such.

Key turned on, then check the E cam sensor signal while turning the crank and see if the signal is a full rail to rail 5v to 0v switching.

[M3llowM3]

Well, fuck. Got my car back from the body shop today after 100 days without it, during which time I assume it wasn't running other than to move it.

Within 5 miles out of the shop, I got a Service Engine Soon light on the dash. Scanned codes when I got home: P0010 (x0A), P0015 (x0F), P0185 (xB9). Found and read this thread.

Details about my car and symptoms:

-Full Beisan VANOS treatment (including solenoid pack) 7 years and ~50k miles ago
-Exhaust cam sensor replaced (with VNE which is OE) about 5 years and ~30k miles ago
-Car is a 2002 that was originally an SMG that has been manually swapped (just like OP's!) and has undergone a CSL airbox conversion with an HP DME from Kassel (just like OP!)
-Car drove great the entire way home from the body shop, no sign of degradation of engine performance
-Have never ever had any of these codes before, nor any VANOS codes at all
-When I clear the codes, they all come back quickly (just like OP)
-I actually re-did my VANOS/cam timing 3k miles ago last November because I had the valve cover off for a valve adjustment, checked timing and noticed it was a bit off. I feel reasonably confident that I nailed it this time. But I also did when I re-timed it in 2020...
-I also have one other code: P0143 (x8F). I've had this code intermittently for a while. Indicates issue with the DME e-box fan, which I expect has failed. I have a new one I've been meaning to put in. Could be consistent with electrical/DME issue. Could be a red herring.

After reading this whole thread, I'm worried that I'm in for a very annoying time...

OP any updates???

your spec and symptoms seem eerily similar to mine. I wish I had good news on a fix for you, but after pulling the car from storage, its been flawless. I can very obviously feel vanos kick in when it is supposed to, no codes, no lights, no issues. Seems to be a repeat of the 2023 year where I planned to take it to a shop and the issue would not reappear so there was nothing to diagnose. This makes me feel like its some sort of a software gremlin or something, but for now im just hoping it keeps working for me.


But please do document whatever your progress/findings are on the issue here, I remember being kind of shocked that there was no other posts (that I could find) that really describe the exact issue I was having.

[ATB88]

your spec and symptoms seem eerily similar to mine. I wish I had good news on a fix for you, but after pulling the car from storage, its been flawless. I can very obviously feel vanos kick in when it is supposed to, no codes, no lights, no issues. Seems to be a repeat of the 2023 year where I planned to take it to a shop and the issue would not reappear so there was nothing to diagnose. This makes me feel like its some sort of a software gremlin or something, but for now im just hoping it keeps working for me.


But please do document whatever your progress/findings are on the issue here, I remember being kind of shocked that there was no other posts (that I could find) that really describe the exact issue I was having.

Thanks, will do. Wait did you try swapping out your HP DME for another known good one? Given that you were able to find some relief of the issue via checking wiring, and the fact that my ebox fan isn't cooling my DME, I'm wondering if heat may have fried some part of my DME? If I don't have this issue solved by the end of the year, I'll be curious to see if the issue persists when I swap back to my stock airbox and original non-HP DME for my biannual smog testing...

[sapote]

Thanks, will do. Wait did you try swapping out your HP DME for another known good one? Given that you were able to find some relief of the issue via checking wiring, and the fact that my ebox fan isn't cooling my DME, I'm wondering if heat may have fried some part of my DME? If I don't have this issue solved by the end of the year, I'll be curious to see if the issue persists when I swap back to my stock airbox and original non-HP DME for my biannual smog testing...

The codes say your E cam sensor signal, so I would either measure the signal voltage to verify, or swap in a good sensor to check.

[ATB88]

The codes say your E cam sensor signal, so I would either measure the signal voltage to verify, or swap in a good sensor to check.

Yep, I plan to start there when I get back home next week. But I'm just thinking out loud about other possibilities, since OP's situation seems more complicated :/

[M3llowM3]

Thanks, will do. Wait did you try swapping out your HP DME for another known good one? Given that you were able to find some relief of the issue via checking wiring, and the fact that my ebox fan isn't cooling my DME, I'm wondering if heat may have fried some part of my DME? If I don't have this issue solved by the end of the year, I'll be curious to see if the issue persists when I swap back to my stock airbox and original non-HP DME for my biannual smog testing...

I did not compare it with a known working HP DME, this was going to be one of the steps done at the shop when I had it for diag as he has loads of extra parts and could even put his own DME in for testing, but whenever it was time for the shop visit the car wouldnt do it again. But this is something I thought of as a potential culprit, as i had my dme converted by kassel, havent heard of those types of issues and I even reached out to them asking if this is something they think could be related. Odds are never 0, but consensus seems to be highly unlikely that it was the cause, but I still am not sure, or fully convinced.

[ATB88]

Key turned on, then check the E cam sensor signal while turning the crank and see if the signal is a full rail to rail 5v to 0v switching.

Just want to double check: what you mean here is to turn the crank manually by hand with a voltmeter hooked up to the crank sensor? (I assume so since I can't find any readout for cam sensor voltage on the Schwaben tool nor in INPA).

[M3llowM3]

Just want to double check: what you mean here is to turn the crank manually by hand with a voltmeter hooked up to the crank sensor? (I assume so since I can't find any readout for cam sensor voltage on the Schwaben tool nor in INPA).

i did this same test a few years back when verifying my sensor. The video can be found somewhere in this thread (edit: went back and checked, its post 34 on this thread). I put jumper wires on the signal and ground, and hooked them up to my multimeter with the sensor plugged in. Remove fuel pump fuse, and i also pulled the coil packs and spark plugs for this (maybe unnecessary) - and put a 32mm socket on the crank, and slowly turning with key in 2nd pos, i saw the voltage go from 0v>5v>0v>5v and so on... from what i gathered, this means the sensor is functioning as intended