Opinions on racingdiffs.com

[maupineda]

I am pretty sure the clunk is caused by the worn clutch set. As for the tool, where do you buy one?

Racingdiffs now sell the tool for the V2. Is like 70 bucks… i also thought about making mine but for 70 Lincolns I will skip that hassle.

Edit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G8PTSL4lrg

For those looking to rebuild the V2 style diff

[Arith2]

So have you found out if yours is V2 or V1, and did you replace the clutch kit?

V2.... no tool or video was available. It was pinned in and I had no specs on anything so the clutches didn't get changed. I was rather annoyed with this, not because I bought the wrong clutch set but that even if I did, there was no hope at the time. It's really good to know that there's a solution for it now. That was one of my only complaints. The other was that the seals seemed cheap and Chinese. I expected this and used OEM. I've put a couple thousands miles on the new bearings and seal with all being well.

[Irhase46m3]

V2.... no tool or video was available. It was pinned in and I had no specs on anything so the clutches didn't get changed. I was rather annoyed with this, not because I bought the wrong clutch set but that even if I did, there was no hope at the time. It's really good to know that there's a solution for it now. That was one of my only complaints. The other was that the seals seemed cheap and Chinese. I expected this and used OEM. I've put a couple thousands miles on the new bearings and seal with all being well.

Hi There - What production date was your car? I just ordered my diffracing advanced rebuild which what i thought was a v1, i have an early production 2004 (04/2004 to be exact) - in theory this should be the v1

Best,
Irhase46m3

[Arith2]

Hi There - What production date was your car? I just ordered my diffracing advanced rebuild which what i thought was a v1, i have an early production 2004 (04/2004 to be exact) - in theory this should be the v1

Best,
Irhase46m3

V2's started 09/2005. There's a 99.9% chance you have a V1

[mrgizmo04]

For those who got the v2 kit, can you confirm if the Belleville washer (preload shim) is included...this is NOT the freeplay shim which goes under the first large spider gear, I am asking about the larger shim that goes on last, on top of the clutches/dog gears before the coupler.

Reason for the question - link in their v2 video description goes to a dead page, but he mentions in the video that this phase 2 (which includes this shim) is the big upgrade from prior v2 kits.
Description for the v2 kit on their site (on the m variable page where you select basic vs advanced for v1 vs v2 - https://racingdiffs.com/products/bmw...34105144672391) does not mention it (only v1 mentions it). But it seems when you click on the basic/advanced option for v2, the product image shows that shim in the top of the 3 sub images in between the clutches and dog gears (it's the larger one laid out around the freeplay shim)?

So is the description on the page incorrect and v2 kit comes with this shim? Or did they decide to not include it with v2 due to excessive preload it causes or something else?

Their team is out on holiday for another few weeks, so I want to confirm.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[maupineda]

For those who got the v2 kit, can you confirm if the Belleville washer (preload shim) is included...this is NOT the freeplay shim which goes under the first large spider gear, I am asking about the larger shim that goes on last, on top of the clutches/dog gears before the coupler.

Reason for the question - link in their v2 video description goes to a dead page, but he mentions in the video that this phase 2 (which includes this shim) is the big upgrade from prior v2 kits.
Description for the v2 kit on their site (on the m variable page where you select basic vs advanced for v1 vs v2 - https://racingdiffs.com/products/bmw...34105144672391) does not mention it (only v1 mentions it). But it seems when you click on the basic/advanced option for v2, the product image shows that shim in the top of the 3 sub images in between the clutches and dog gears (it's the larger one laid out around the freeplay shim)?

So is the description on the page incorrect and v2 kit comes with this shim? Or did they decide to not include it with v2 due to excessive preload it causes or something else?

Their team is out on holiday for another few weeks, so I want to confirm.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I bought my kit back in November, and mine does include the preload shim as in the video

it also has:
5 clutch discs and
6 steel plates (1 is thicker)

seems their kit description is to be updated

[mrgizmo04]

I bought my kit back in November, and mine does include the preload shim as in the video

it also has:
5 clutch discs and
6 steel plates (1 is thicker)

seems their kit description is to be updated

So even the number of clutch discs and steel plates is not accurate for v2, since it seems like the same number as v1 then...

Thanks for the data point.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[BMW_QAS]

I rebuilt my Nov 2002 M3 differential at home using a Harbor Freight 20ton press with the V1 kit from Racing Diffs. I ordered 2 extra crush sleeves from Diffsonline just incase I messed up the included one from Racing Diffs.

My car had 106K miles when I bought it. The diff was rebuilt at 108K miles and I am now at 126k miles. The installed rear differential to subframe bushing is all metal so the NVH was high from the start. The differential starting making a speed dependent whine in all gears that increased and decreased in pitch the faster/slower you went. Upon disassembly during rebuild the Pinion Bearing race was chewed up horribly. It seems like small metallic debris collects there and there isn't a lot of fluid movement in the area to flush it out.

On the rebuilt diff: Lock up is great (for me). The notorious clunk during takeoff I had when I bought the car is gone with the use of the bevel washer, so that thing actually works. Making sharp U-turns on the OEM diff produced a hard wurring sound with a clunk, the Racing Diffs rebuild kit produced far less noise and almost no clunk. Does this matter? Probably not.

The hardest part of the rebuild was two fold:

I had to find the rolling torque for the Pinion bearing and then purchase a torque wrench for it. It was VERY difficult to find this information. I ended up with a 0-15 INCH LBS CDI Torque wrench. If I remember correctly the range on the rolling toque was 7-11 inch lbs but when you do a rebuild ALWAYS get your own information and verify it with a second unrelated source.

The second hardest part was torquing the pinion nut and crush sleeve ( on the front of the diff) to the required torque. I used a BAV ( Big A** Vice) to hold the input flange. It was NERVE RACKING because if you over torque the crush sleeve you have to start over with a new one. This is why I ordered a few extra from Diffsonline. I ended up screwing up the first one as the rolling torque came out to over 15 inch lbs. The second time I got it in at 10 inch lbs and I was happy with that. Replacing the crush sleeve means pressing out the pinion shaft with the press which is not something you want to repeat many times.

In my case backlash didn't need to be reset as I used all the original shims in the original locations. I used zip-ties to keep them together as soon as they were removed and marked them with a paint marker to ensure nothing was mixed right to left. I used Motul 75W140 Gear Competition fluid. Looked like surf blood! Everything has held up well with mixed city/highway/very hard driving.

Rebuilding the diff was easier than the SMG to Manual swap I did with the exception that information was harder to come by with torque figures and certain procedures. Don't be afraid to tackle this if you are mechanically inclined and can afford to take risks.

[Arith2]

I rebuilt my Nov 2002 M3 differential at home using a Harbor Freight 20ton press with the V1 kit from Racing Diffs. I ordered 2 extra crush sleeves from Diffsonline just incase I messed up the included one from Racing Diffs.

My car had 106K miles when I bought it. The diff was rebuilt at 108K miles and I am now at 126k miles. The installed rear differential to subframe bushing is all metal so the NVH was high from the start. The differential starting making a speed dependent whine in all gears that increased and decreased in pitch the faster/slower you went. Upon disassembly during rebuild the Pinion Bearing race was chewed up horribly. It seems like small metallic debris collects there and there isn't a lot of fluid movement in the area to flush it out.

On the rebuilt diff: Lock up is great (for me). The notorious clunk during takeoff I had when I bought the car is gone with the use of the bevel washer, so that thing actually works. Making sharp U-turns on the OEM diff produced a hard wurring sound with a clunk, the Racing Diffs rebuild kit produced far less noise and almost no clunk. Does this matter? Probably not.

The hardest part of the rebuild was two fold:

I had to find the rolling torque for the Pinion bearing and then purchase a torque wrench for it. It was VERY difficult to find this information. I ended up with a 0-15 INCH LBS CDI Torque wrench. If I remember correctly the range on the rolling toque was 7-11 inch lbs but when you do a rebuild ALWAYS get your own information and verify it with a second unrelated source.

The second hardest part was torquing the pinion nut and crush sleeve ( on the front of the diff) to the required torque. I used a BAV ( Big A** Vice) to hold the input flange. It was NERVE RACKING because if you over torque the crush sleeve you have to start over with a new one. This is why I ordered a few extra from Diffsonline. I ended up screwing up the first one as the rolling torque came out to over 15 inch lbs. The second time I got it in at 10 inch lbs and I was happy with that. Replacing the crush sleeve means pressing out the pinion shaft with the press which is not something you want to repeat many times.

In my case backlash didn't need to be reset as I used all the original shims in the original locations. I used zip-ties to keep them together as soon as they were removed and marked them with a paint marker to ensure nothing was mixed right to left. I used Motul 75W140 Gear Competition fluid. Looked like surf blood! Everything has held up well with mixed city/highway/very hard driving.

Rebuilding the diff was easier than the SMG to Manual swap I did with the exception that information was harder to come by with torque figures and certain procedures. Don't be afraid to tackle this if you are mechanically inclined and can afford to take risks.

Did your pinion bearing look like this?

[BMW_QAS]

The bearings themselves had small scratches but no marks. I suspect the clutch discs were worn and the debris lodged itself there.

[sapote]

wow, the bearing outer race with all these deep pitting, but the rollers don't look bad. This must generate horrible whining noise. If prolong the extra clearance from the bad bearing could cause bad wear on the pinion/ring gears then they are toast.
For the small torque wrench (10" lbs), one could use 1lb weight on 10" extension tube and have the tube/wrench horizontal, instead of buying a rarely-needed tool.

[BMW_QAS]

The whine presented itself during a drive from Jacksonville, FL to Savannah, GA. In all I put around 200 highway miles on the diff after it started making noise. I didn't note any damage to the pinion gears with a 10x magnifying glass while I did the tear down. I think I caught it just in time.


Thats a good point on the torque wrench. I like collecting tools so it was ok in my situation, if worse came to worse I could have sold the torque wrench at a slight loss and gotten my moneys worth out of it.

[Arith2]

It was my rollers that were awful and the races were ok. Nothing was THAT bad though. I'm putting 1000 miles on the build this week and I'm over halfway with no extra noise. I do believe a caveat to be aware of is their Timken bearings require a different preload than the OEM bearings. They provide that info or it's floating around in a document somewhere.

[mrgizmo04]

I've been in a lot of back and forth with Luka to make the site a bit more accurate on some info, and more granular in ordering selection when needed...

The shim kit title says up to '99 cars is not correct, the 210mm option there works for our cars.

Those of you guys with v1 lsd units, his advanced v1 bundle pack, or individual basic kit 1 clutch pack or the variant 1 of seals/bearings will work just fine.

For those with v2 lsd units, the parts/bundling gets a bit hairy. The basic v2 kit is correct, it has a different large preload washer (0.5mm thicker than in v1 kit). The bearing/seal variant 2 and the advanced kit v2 sound like they might give you incorrect parts for our car, because according to Luka, the pinion bearing is different for cars that use v2 unit in e92/e60 generations. This doesn't apply to e46...

Because e46 is the generation with this weird cross over from v1 to v2, while other generations are more plain vanilla all v1, like E36, e39, or all v2 like e92, e60, his bundling for e46 needs tweaks. Descriptions on bearing/seal kit page need to say that for all years of e46 m3, indep of v1 or v2 lsd unit, v1 bearing/seal kit needs to be ordered. And his bundling of "advanced" options needs to include a variant for e46 with v1 vs v2 lsd units - for those with v1 lsd units to bundle the basic variant 1 clutch pack with variant 1 of bearing/seal kit (which is correct in how the site bundles it now), and for those with v2 lsd units for e46 m3 the bundling needs to be basic variant 2 clutch pack with variant 1 of the seal/bearing kit. There is no form field or comment that is required for user to fill out to specify that the v2 advanced kit or the variant 2 bearing/seal kit is being ordered for e46 m3, and unless you know this info about differences upfront, you won't know to even say anything, and racingdiffs not having that info from your order also will not know (they might assume you are ordering a v2 kit for e92 m3).

Reason I went down this rabbit hole is because I have a few "spare" diffs (because track/drift), and some are v1 and some are v2. The diff case and bearings/seals are exactly the same, the only things different are the lsd units and the lsd unit internals. So I started wondering why variant 2 bearing/seal kit or advanced kit 2 are so much more expensive vs v1 counterparts (after adjusting for the different clutch pack price) for e46 m3.

So I'm still working things out with Luka, due to time difference it's like an email response per day/per several days. But wanted to give you guys a heads up on your v2 lsd units.

Some other extraneous info for those who care. I can not find info (searching, or even talking to Dan or Luka) about v2 lsd units being "better". They were used in more powerful cars, not sure they are more stout. The basic design change was to address the noise/clunk when clutches wear out and extra play in v1 could mismash the spider gears (a bit), because in v1 everything is just stacked on top of each other, while in v2 spider gears are held in place with pins that are actually fixed to lsd unit (slide through + c clips), so even if the clutches wear out and get looser the spider gear mash pattern stays constant. V2 units have a pain in the butt disassembly and reassembly process, testing of preload torque since you can tighten the final cap differently from where you started during disassembly. This also changes the natural stack height (or width once back in the diff) and therefore requires reshimming and resetting the backlash every time. V1 unit is more "fixed" stack height, so once it's shimmed once and all you replace are the clutches in lsd unit you can just pop it back in and off you go, no backlash adjustment is needed.

I asked if there is data on whether v1 lsd units require more frequent rebuilds or replacement of spider gears, noone really has an answer. But having looked through both designs, I think v1 units will require replacement of spider gears "more frequently" because they go through a greater wear range - first with preload shims/washers and new clutch packs when everything is tight and then as the clutch packs wear out and things loosen up, so I'd expect more rounded wear patterns in v1 (yes there is that freeplay shim there, but we know how "springs" work, with counter force proportional to distance they are compressed). This is just speculation. Remember v2 units have spider gears ride on pins which are fixed to lsd unit, so they have a constant contact/wear pattern indep if clutches wear and create loose space.

Bearings/seals should last longer than the clutch packs. In cars that are *driven*, clutch packs last about 20k miles, that's where mine ended up (Dan and Luka basically have the same disclaimers). So my plan, for now, is to not shell out for an OS Giken, but to "convert" my v2 diffs to v1 using v1 lsd units, shimming them once/adjusting backlash and then just replacing the clutch packs going forward.

I'll think of some other stuff to add.

[sapote]

Reason I went down this rabbit hole is because I have a few "spare" diffs (because track/drift), and some are v1 and some are v2. The diff case and bearings/seals are exactly the same, the only things different are the lsd units and the lsd unit internals.

great information, thank you.
If everything is the same but the LSD carriers themselves, then can I assume the output flanges are the same, but V1 has the short one on right side and V2 with short flange on the left?