PNP Upgraded Injectors for NA Build?

[sickrunners]

what cams did you go with? 280/272? 288/280? high lift?

[Sharocks]

what cams did you go with? 280/272? 288/280? high lift?

He has 288/280's

[EthanolTurbo]

Could you elaborate on the rail angle a bit. What's the angling for? About how much of an angle are we talking?
I've been on the fence about new injectors for a while but at $220, it's a no brainer.

I can't remember exactly but there's a couple mm difference between stock and these 550cc. You just need a small washer to angle the fuel injector rail very slightly. I wish I had pics of it but haven't had a chance to get under the hood. When you see it, it'll make sense. It's just a tiny difference. These injectors are almost perfectly plug and play though, and they run butter smooth with a good tune. It's nice to not be running 100% injector duty cycle. 🤪

[jet_dogg]

what cams did you go with? 280/272? 288/280? high lift?

I thought he had 280/272. You can't run 14mm lift with stock pistons so you can forget about those.

[Arith2]

I can't remember exactly but there's a couple mm difference between stock and these 550cc. You just need a small washer to angle the fuel injector rail very slightly. I wish I had pics of it but haven't had a chance to get under the hood. When you see it, it'll make sense. It's just a tiny difference. These injectors are almost perfectly plug and play though, and they run butter smooth with a good tune. It's nice to not be running 100% injector duty cycle. 🤪

Not to mention running 100% on 15 year old injectors. I have no head work but do have a set of 272/280s sitting around waiting for me to have time. I'm not familiar with S54 tunes but I can safely assume these 370whp+ tunes approach 100%. I was told to never exceed 95% or so for reliability. Above 98% is a no go. What's the minimum though?

[thegenius46m]

Could you elaborate on the rail angle a bit. What's the angling for? About how much of an angle are we talking?
I've been on the fence about new injectors for a while but at $220, it's a no brainer.

Looks like I don’t have any pics but I just ordered a radium fuel rail with the AN feed line which allows you to remove the feed rail height variable and shim the mounting tabs to the itbs which should (fingers crossed) allow me to adjust for the small discrepancy in injector height differences. My main issue is needing to raise the injector a tad higher so the lower o rings aren’t causing a vacuum leak because this is not optimal but the car runs fine and Hassan was able to tune it.

But he’ll yeah these injectors are night and day over stock bs. Hassan was almost completely able to fix the drivability issue I had before because he had to detune for the lack of fueling from the stock injectors.

With porting, schrick 280/272 cams, upgraded and lighter single groove valves, and the 550cc injectors the car is still making power on the dyno at 8600rpm without drop off and it feels considerably faster from 3k+. With stock injector the power dropped off at 8200rpm and the car drove like crap imho.

VF engineering uses this same injector with their stage 2 supercharger kit and they use spacers to raise the injector out of the throttle body but have you drill out the fuel rail bolt holes because it will not line up to the factory points as is.

If I get everything this week I will take some pics of what I end up with install wise. But I’ll be honest this has been a royal pia because nothing is direct plug and play. And EV1 injectors are antiquated tech so you’re dealing with custom fitment for the EV14, but the car will drive so much better.


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[thegenius46m]

I can't remember exactly but there's a couple mm difference between stock and these 550cc. You just need a small washer to angle the fuel injector rail very slightly. I wish I had pics of it but haven't had a chance to get under the hood. When you see it, it'll make sense. It's just a tiny difference. These injectors are almost perfectly plug and play though, and they run butter smooth with a good tune. It's nice to not be running 100% injector duty cycle. 🤪

Here is what VF includes with their SC kit for the 550cc injector



I have these from McMaster that my friend BbrTuning is running with these injectors

I’m going to probably just run 1 though because if you go too high the electrical harness puts way too much tension on the injector because it’s smashing the head and torquing the injector. VF also says the pig tails need to be slightly released to lessen the tension which I’m going to try as well. You can only do so much though before the harness just flops around since the injectors are what keep it secured.


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[duracellttu]

This is a great thread! I’ve been wondering why my NA build hasn’t been able to make peak power than others have been able to and I think the stock fuel injectors are my limitation.

Couple of questions.
1) Any issue using the stock fuel pump and FPR for the larger injectors?
2) what was the part number for the washer on the injector?

[digger]

This is a great thread! I’ve been wondering why my NA build hasn’t been able to make peak power than others have been able to and I think the stock fuel injectors are my limitation.

Couple of questions.
1) Any issue using the stock fuel pump and FPR for the larger injectors?
2) what was the part number for the washer on the injector?

your dyno results suggest a fairly flat 13.5:1 AFR on the topend which means you are unlikely maxing them out

[jet_dogg]

This is a great thread! I’ve been wondering why my NA build hasn’t been able to make peak power than others have been able to and I think the stock fuel injectors are my limitation.

Couple of questions.
1) Any issue using the stock fuel pump and FPR for the larger injectors?
2) what was the part number for the washer on the injector?

Injectors ain't yo problem brobro.

[duracellttu]

Injectors ain't yo problem brobro.

What makes you say that?

[Ryan_R]

Can anyone share their injector latency offsets for the Bosch 550cc injectors? Ever since I swapped these in, I'm running lean at idle and low throttle. If I compensation on the global scalar I'll end up running rich at mid throttle inputs (fuel trims go to -20%). Fuel pressure is a touch low (65psi at idle with vacuum hose attached), but I don't think that would cause these issues. The biggest tip off is that when I add 10% fuel at WOT it does not translate to a 10% shift in lambda values according to my wideband.

[EthanolTurbo]

Can anyone share their injector latency offsets for the Bosch 550cc injectors? Ever since I swapped these in, I'm running lean at idle and low throttle. If I compensation on the global scalar I'll end up running rich at mid throttle inputs (fuel trims go to -20%). Fuel pressure is a touch low (65psi at idle with vacuum hose attached), but I don't think that would cause these issues. The biggest tip off is that when I add 10% fuel at WOT it does not translate to a 10% shift in lambda values according to my wideband.

Contact HTE Performance and he will help you with settings etc.

[Altaran]

So, I have been fiddling with this recently and just adding my findings to this thread:

I wanted to have a bigger injector for my NA build, so I started looking around.

Our injectors are size EV6E - that E is important, standard EV6 are too long. That's one order I had to send back...

Important is to check the units of the rating. A lot of injectors I searched specified in n-heptane grams per minute. This is not CC per minute.

EDIT: forgot to mention that the values differ since our cars run 5 bar fuel pressure. added flow values at 5 bar.

I ended up going with Bosch 0280156063 injectors, those were used on early 2000s Audi TTs and S3 Models. They are EV6C and a plug & play fit. They sit 2 to 3 mm higher than the stock injectors but it's still within the tolerance range. Same connector, so no adaptations needed here.
Rating in n-heptane g/min: 269
Rating in cc/minute: 374 @ 3 bar / 482 @ 5 bar
This was in line with the range my tuner recommended.

996 Turbo injectors 0280156012 are also EV6C in the same shape as the units I bought, so also plug & play fit.
Rating in n-heptane g/min: 310
Rating in cc/minute: 413 @ 3 bar / 533 @ 5 bar

Cayenne v8 Injectors 0280156102 have the same flow rating as turbo injectors, just in yellow. Can be an alternative since the 996s are currently out of stock at a lot of places.

Mercedes SLR Injectors 0280156148 (Bosch part #) / A1550780049 (Mercedes part #) are also a direct fit (EV6C) with even higher flow. Bosch branded units are all out of stock. Mercedes may sell you some if you sell a kidney.
Rating in n-heptane g/min: 337
Rating in cc/minute: 469 @ 3 bar / 605 @ 5 bar

Saab/Opel injectors 0280156023 may also work, but they have an impedance of 15.94 Ohm. I do not know if that works with the factory DME.
Rating in n-heptane g/min: 261
Rating in cc/minute: 363 @ 3 bar / 468 @ 5 bar

There's some Bosch EV14 injectors available different flow rates that should fit the fuel rail without issues, such as 0280158218. But EV12s have a difference connector, so either your plastic wiring rail for the electrics sits higher with connector adapters, or you swap the mating connectors as well. good thing about those is the little snorkel outlet is the most similar to factory.

If for any reason, somebody wants to use injectors with a longer body, it's feasibly if you change your fuel rail to an aftermarket unit (e.g. the Radium Rail), which has the mounting tho the throttle bodies as a separate bolt on piece where spacers can be added. Or feel free to cut and reweld the mounting to your OEM rail if you feel comfortable doing it. With all the injectors available in different sizes as plug and play, this however should not be necessary.

There's way more injectors out there with larger flow rates feasible for FI applications, but since I was looking for my NA build, I didn't care to write this down in detail

[9kracing]

Great info.

You're sure 0280156012 is plug and play? No spacers needed?