S54 Stroker build

[stash1]

Or... you can do both.

Both what?

[M/Anthony]

But these are S54s and S54 owners we're talking about here. If we were pragmatic, we'd probably own ZHPs.

This is the best quote to describe this build. Ok this post will be a bit lengthy and I apologize for that in advance. But first, I would like to say thank you to everybody who has responded and contributed to this thread, I appreciate your help, it has helped me beyond thinkable with this build. If it is not much to ask I will ask to keep this thread alive and well, because due to my craziness and being as Ethan puts it, s54 owner, I want this thread to be a pile of information and new tried things since I never saw it before. Meaning I will ask dumb questions, sorry I can't help it still semi-noob engine building haha; but I want it for everyone else to see and maybe some who builds an S54 is inspires to build his car NA. While Im j speaking rhetorically there, I believe having a lot of engine information and engine talk will be beneficial to the community.

So going forward, I will have to replace my internals since my pistons are In the best of shape, and theres no point to going big and forgetting abut engine components. Addiotnally the reason behind newer components will be to have the s54 rev faster and have an all around lighter rotating assembly, crank, lighter clutch, carbon driveshaft etc. I always felt the s54 was a bit slow to rev anyway.

After talking with you guys and Obioban, he convinced me that even his 356rwhp m3 is a riot on the street and Im changing my view on my build. This engine will be insane to begin with, crazy and not a regular s54 build, with cars I like trying something new and different from everyone. But, since he even said that ill have a fun time on the street and it has plenty of power and ill put her on a diet so her weight is around 3k, I realized that stroking it will not be done. I want this car and engine to be as raw as you can get, however I still want to drive to Dunkin Donuts some mornings with it. This car will be lighter too, so it will defiantly be fun. I don't want to be scared just riding in the car, I was crazy and fast but I dont want to fear my car, if so I would've slapped a turbo on there.

Next, since Im not doing a "Stroker build" reasons being 1. finky 2. rebuild costs 3. I would be able l to drive or enjoy it the same as I want to 4. overall initial costs, 5k for a 97mm stoker, insane. 5. risks of things going wrong 6. oil, as I don't want to run a dry sump

But, this engine will be: fully rebuild, balanced and probably blueprinted, new everything. Lighter crank and pistons/ connecting rods. I wouldn't be surprised if the displacement jumps up a couple of ccs du to after market parts, which is very ok by me lol. This engine will have a Bimmerwrold CSL Intake that routes to the front of my car, air will feed through kidneys girls, radiator lowered. However, I will be raising compression, to what yet im not sure.

I have already contacted Partee racing and they would be happy to, I just have to wait for a week becuas ehe is backed up with work right now. So nows the perfect time for me to as questions on here.
How high of a compression is too high for E85? I have to retain Vanos, but whats the main effect if I were to put in high lift schrick camshafts versus less lift Cat Cams? Is there a way to run a flex fuel kind of tune, because the pump E85 in Norcals isn't straight e85 and im guessing either way it'll fluctuate a lot? 13:1 on street? Best guy to get headwork done? ill ask more questions along the road.

Either which way this engine will be a nit radical, crazy, and seen as stupid but it'll be fun and thats all that matters at the end of the day. I want to push to see how far we can go. Below are my current Pistons, backstory I bought my m3 from a sketchy guy and well many things went wrong and there were problems left and right, lesson: trust yourself and m3s are not cheap lol. Anyhow, I have pictures of the entire engine when taking out every part and stuff so if anybody wants them as reference or just bc let me know, but here are my pistons #1 + #6 expierneced the worst. I only put 7k on the engine and I did a retune, complete VANOS job, both tabs broke, and the guy before me swapped SMG to 6MT in a a garage.

Any info, insights, comments, considerations, or anything is greatly appreciated!

Thank you again,
Anthony

[bjz!]

Both what?

Use the money saved from not buying fancy titanium/Inconel parts and spend it on quality pot work.

[digger]

Anthony it is really easy to get a stout stroker bottom end it just cost money to get the correct quality parts including a damper . Mahle MS 4032 pistons are what you need and a correctly machined crank with journals on point. Then it’s just a matter of a proper machine shop doing the block machining and assembly work.
The fundamentals are the same for any engine from a Honda to BBC. There is zero about an s54 that is unique in the bottom end and the stroker changes none of that.
most issues people have is in the valvetrain except the obvious rod bearing that affects the factory spec engines

in truth the stroker just makes more torque not hp so if you’re not wanting more torque then the cost is not worth it

[M/Anthony]

Anthony it is really easy to get a stout stroker bottom end it just cost money to get the correct quality parts including a damper . Mahle MS 4032 pistons are what you need and a correctly machined crank with journals on point. Then it’s just a matter of a proper machine shop doing the block machining and assembly work.
The fundamentals are the same for any engine from a Honda to BBC. There is zero about an s54 that is unique in the bottom end and the stroker changes none of that.
most issues people have is in the valvetrain except the obvious rod bearing that affects the factory spec engines

in truth the stroker just makes more torque not hp so if you’re not wanting more torque then the cost is not worth it

Torque is what this engine needs the most, obviously hp isn't the only goal, I do want lower end torque. In the case of the valvetrain what really goes wrong if it is put together properly? I know im going to get a billet crank and if slightly increasing the displacement guarantees more toque and hp it seems like a no brainer. Either way Im going to be replacing my valves and valve retainers etc, with higher quality parts, if in stroker builds, thats what goes wrong isn't there a way to prevent it, therefore getting the best of both worlds hp and torque?
In reference to cost, I'm most likely going to replace engine components, and Ive factored in the cost for a 5k billet crank and its within reason with the budget of this build.

[digger]

Torque is what this engine needs the most, obviously hp isn't the only goal, I do want lower end torque. In the case of the valvetrain what really goes wrong if it is put together properly? I know im going to get a billet crank and if slightly increasing the displacement guarantees more toque and hp it seems like a no brainer. Either way Im going to be replacing my valves and valve retainers etc, with higher quality parts, if in stroker builds, thats what goes wrong isn't there a way to prevent it, therefore getting the best of both worlds hp and torque?
In reference to cost, I'm most likely going to replace engine components, and Ive factored in the cost for a 5k billet crank and its within reason with the budget of this build.

then you want the longest stroke crank, high compression, E85, with mild cams (non excessive durarion but good lift) thats the fundamentals of how you make torque. you can forego the high lit 14mm cams if you want added durability in the valvetrain.

to make hp with stock crank means more rpm which is harder on parts than cubic inches, valve control which can spit shims, pound retainers, locks, fatigue springs and everything else. i havent kept up with what the big names are selling these days but if i was build a high spec motor id be going a diffrent route to the usual ST or ferrea as i think there is better stuff out there but you need to know your stuff to mix and match bits and piecs and some of will need to be custom

[Arith2]

No, you're mistaken, it's entirely possible to run big boy cams in an S54...and retain VANOS. The Schrick cams that you're both referencing are actually 304/296 duration specs, and it's actually more the lift than duration that gets you into trouble.

That's definitely good to know. I was thinking that the vanos might create too much overlap but really, it just may be dialed backed woth the tune. The idling can be fixed by raising it... Maybe 1200rpm will keep it run decent for daily driving?

It's probably good to not stroke this engine for daily driving. These pistons move extremely fast as is. I'm about to start another Power and Performance class. I think I'll be mapping tunes(I won't be an expert by any means) so I should learn alot more about this in depth over the next few weeks. Hopefully the teacher doesn't suck. I do wish the school didn't pull the Flowmaster out of the curriculum though.

This aggressive build is going to be sick. You should document this on Youtube.

[M/Anthony]

then you want the longest stroke crank, high compression, E85, with mild cams (non excessive durarion but good lift) thats the fundamentals of how you make torque. you can forego the high lit 14mm cams if you want added durability in the valvetrain.

to make hp with stock crank means more rpm which is harder on parts than cubic inches, valve control which can spit shims, pound retainers, locks, fatigue springs and everything else. i havent kept up with what the big names are selling these days but if i was build a high spec motor id be going a diffrent route to the usual ST or ferrea as i think there is better stuff out there but you need to know your stuff to mix and match bits and piecs and some of will need to be custom

Ok, starting to take some of this info in a little bit more.. the S54 crank is 91mm, increasing it to 93mm while keeping stock connecting rod dimensions, then upgrading to a 87.5 piston be the way to go? going to a 95+mm crank would seem to abusive and ruin the engine, not trying to rebuild a lot. So by that logic, a 93mm and slighter larger pistons give the engine itself a little more torque, while still, keeping high compression build? can somebody confirm/analyze this?

Going what Hassan, and you say 13:1 compression E85, high lift Schrick im guessing based on what your syaing that 304/296 will be too much correct? , 93mm crank, 87.50mm or stock 87mm pistons? I will sleeve this engine; with Stash1 ST valve shim conversion kit is a good place to start? trying to get the best of both worlds.

[M/Anthony]

That's definitely good to know. I was thinking that the vanos might create too much overlap but really, it just may be dialed backed woth the tune. The idling can be fixed by raising it... Maybe 1200rpm will keep it run decent for daily driving?

It's probably good to not stroke this engine for daily driving. These pistons move extremely fast as is. I'm about to start another Power and Performance class. I think I'll be mapping tunes(I won't be an expert by any means) so I should learn alot more about this in depth over the next few weeks. Hopefully the teacher doesn't suck. I do wish the school didn't pull the Flowmaster out of the curriculum though.

This aggressive build is going to be sick. You should document this on Youtube.

right there encouraged me a little more to keep going with this build. I will be documenting this through journal, Instagram, and youtube!

Yes higher rpms is fine with me ahaha, yeah with bigger cams higher rpm with idle, stock is 950, I believe even the csl revs a slightly higher than stock, not completely sure. Defiantly not doing big boy stroke, still looking to increase torque.

wanna share class notes? lol

[Arith2]

right there made me keep going with this build. I will be documenting this through journal, Instagram, and youtube!

Yes higher rpms is fine with me ahaha, yeah with bigger cams higher rpm idle stock is 950, I believe even the csl revs a slightly higher than stock, not completely sure. Defiantly not doing big boy stroke, still looking to increase torque.

wanna share class notes? lol

Absolutely. I do get a booklet for in class lectures on top of my actual text book. For some reason I've forgotten it even exists. I brought my idle to 900 or 950 for NVH since I went catless which is nicer than I think 750 or 800. My redline is at 8250 and my power peaks at 8100 according to Buildjournal. I remember reading somewhere that our piston velocity is like 25 m/s at 8000rpm which is insane so getting too rev happy will end badly. Plus valves may float. One of my instructors was telling me how they were shooting shims through the valve cover at 9000rpm occasionally when he was on a race team. If this happens, I have an extra valve cover

Does anyone know the BMEP for our engine?

[M/Anthony]

Absolutely. I do get a booklet for in class lectures on top of my actual text book. For some reason I've forgotten it even exists. I brought my idle to 900 or 950 for NVH since I went catless which is nicer than I think 750 or 800. My redline is at 8250 and my power peaks at 8100 according to Buildjournal. I remember reading somewhere that our piston velocity is like 25 m/s at 8000rpm which is insane so getting too rev happy will end badly. Plus valves may float. One of my instructors was telling me how they were shooting shims through the valve cover at 9000rpm occasionally when he was on a race team. If this happens, I have an extra valve cover

Does anyone know the BMEP for our engine?

Once the engine is built and an m3 is bought ill have a whole extra long block 😁 Time to practice valve adjustments for fun.

Isnt the rule 27m/s? Now, that's a modern-day horror story right there. Don't worry my car never saw 3.5K rpm until it hit regular oil temp, sucked to drive in the morning but the engine ran great. The s54 sounds like itll explode every time you hit 7k+ next to a line of cars and a 8-foot tall wall, best sound ever though. I'm very cautious even more now that ill be building it lol.

[terra]

You can keep a stock or near stock idle with big cams. You just need to adjust the DME's settings for pumping losses.

[digger]

Ok, starting to take some of this info in a little bit more.. the S54 crank is 91mm, increasing it to 93mm while keeping stock connecting rod dimensions, then upgrading to a 87.5 piston be the way to go? going to a 95+mm crank would seem to abusive and ruin the engine, not trying to rebuild a lot. So by that logic, a 93mm and slighter larger pistons give the engine itself a little more torque, while still, keeping high compression build? can somebody confirm/analyze this?

Going what Hassan, and you say 13:1 compression E85, high lift Schrick im guessing based on what your syaing that 304/296 will be too much correct? , 93mm crank, 87.50mm or stock 87mm pistons? I will sleeve this engine; with Stash1 ST valve shim conversion kit is a good place to start? trying to get the best of both worlds.

i wouldnt do that small of a stroke increase, 2 mm is not much if youre spending $5k. 95-97mm is what i'd personally do.

[M/Anthony]

i wouldnt do that small of a stroke increase, 2 mm is not much if youre spending $5k. 95-97mm is what i'd personally do.

How much does increasing the bore by .5mm effet the engine?
LangRacing has a 95mm Billet Crank, cheaper $3795 with this I will still have good reliability?

[digger]

How much does increasing the bore by .5mm effet the engine?
LangRacing has a 95mm Billet Crank, cheaper $3795 with this I will still have good reliability?

0.5mm is not worth a huge amount in itself from the size as it is a small percentage point change in engine size. new pistons gain from what you have comes from it being a fresh bore and torque plate honing, different CR, deeper valve reliefs better rings etc etc.

i have no idea on the quality and don't know the manufacturer, cant see any inherent issues though. You wouldnt know until the engine builder mic's it and checks it out