The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[TexaZ3]

yeah that was last year. I think it was red on red for $36K. Certainly was a good deal lol

Was it? In any case, that was good deal. Stil lsome good deals on Z4Ms, but obviously not as good then.

An original owner IR/IR with 27K miles went RNM on BaT this week for just shy of $37K. Maybe one of the last analog M cars where prices haven't gone completely insane yet. Of course the guy's reserve could have been $60K too. Who knows.

Low mile cars have been hovering around $50K mark, and cars ~80k miles around $40k mark. Anything over 100k still can be had for low-to-mid 30s, so yeah, I think I agree with you on that - still not bad.

[tlow98]

The Z4m always drove kind of strange to me. BMW’s bread and butter is the sedans or sedan based bodies. Then they basically take those same underpinnings to repackage them as “sports cars”, but they don’t drive like sports cars.

You basically just sit in a weird place relative to the center of gravity which makes them feel odd. None of the practicality benefits of the sedans and, imo, a worse driving experience.

I’d still love a clown shoe, but mostly for nostalgia not for the way it drives. Sadly.

[Maxima SE]

Was it? In any case, that was good deal. Stil lsome good deals on Z4Ms, but obviously not as good then.



Low mile cars have been hovering around $50K mark, and cars ~80k miles around $40k mark. Anything over 100k still can be had for low-to-mid 30s, so yeah, I think I agree with you on that - still not bad.

Yes I have noticed that. I'm not really upset about losing out on that Z4 since I already have a S54 car. I'm still in the market for a 09-10 clean S85 beast

[jet_dogg]

This thread has been relatively quiet in regards to m3 content.

With the economy in the shitter, record inflation and insane gas prices have we crossed the inflection point for average m3 market values?

[maw1124]

This thread has been relatively quiet in regards to m3 content.

With the economy in the shitter, record inflation and insane gas prices have we crossed the inflection point for average m3 market values?

Yes, for cars generally, and for E46M a plateau. I don’t think they’ll fall again from here (not the best ones anyway).

But it’s less about a poor economy (which I don’t think we have) or gas prices (which if you have or want a performance car you don’t really care about). It’s that borrowed money will once again feel like borrowed money, which means a whole bunch of shit is about to look less attractive — crypto being the most obvious. There’s a whole world of things people will do at 0% interest that they won’t do at 5% interest. Speculative “collector” car flipping, buying crypto, and paying too much for a house all headline my Top 5.

We basically have the same economy we had in 2016 — too many people driving Uber and multiple working bar/restaurant/hotel/beauty and cosmetics jobs to make ends meet. Meanwhile the cost of living really only goes one way. If you think that’s a shitty economy, realize it was shitty then too. It’s just that the cost of debt was artificially low. Once it goes back to its normal level and the free cash dries up, well reality sets back in really quickly. Throw in gas prices because drillers stopped drilling when oil reached 2016 prices (remember “drill baby drill” — another bubble economy fed by cheap debt) because there were no wars and now there is (NOTHING consumes oil like war!) well you can see what that looks like.

maw

[SQ13]

I care about gas prices. Fuck this

[maw1124]

I care about gas prices. Fuck this

But are you selling your car because of it?

As if on queue, does this guy make or lose money on this one? At the time, he probably thought he'd be selling at a "profit"... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...onvertible-71/ ... My guess is now he'd rather have the $29k.

maw

[02_lsb]

M3(ish)

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KP7NRxBq/1999-bmw-328i-sedan

[jet_dogg]

Yes, for cars generally, and for E46M a plateau. I don’t think they’ll fall again from here (not the best ones anyway).

But it’s less about a poor economy (which I don’t think we have) or gas prices (which if you have or want a performance car you don’t really care about). It’s that borrowed money will once again feel like borrowed money, which means a whole bunch of shit is about to look less attractive — crypto being the most obvious. There’s a whole world of things people will do at 0% interest that they won’t do at 5% interest. Speculative “collector” car flipping, buying crypto, and paying too much for a house all headline my Top 5.

We basically have the same economy we had in 2016 — too many people driving Uber and multiple working bar/restaurant/hotel/beauty and cosmetics jobs to make ends meet. Meanwhile the cost of living really only goes one way. If you think that’s a shitty economy, realize it was shitty then too. It’s just that the cost of debt was artificially low. Once it goes back to its normal level and the free cash dries up, well reality sets back in really quickly. Throw in gas prices because drillers stopped drilling when oil reached 2016 prices (remember “drill baby drill” — another bubble economy fed by cheap debt) because there were no wars and now there is (NOTHING consumes oil like war!) well you can see what that looks like.

maw

So they will fall again unless they're the best ones which agrees with my point.

The takeaway here is that the economy depends on the cost of borrowing money, not actual domestic product or employment or other historical variables. The fed's decisions dictate economic progress and in turn the amount of money people have to save and to spend.

[maw1124]

jet_dogg my view is the economy is ALWAYS a function of money supply, which is always a function of the cost of money (interest rates). As the interest rate approaches zero, the availability of money goes up, etc., etc.

The US economy is 2/3 consumer driven, so even if you don’t like this theory, for 2/3 of the economy it’s 100% true. Take gas prices, housing prices, food prices, and every other inflationary data point that we decry. If you could just borrow the extra money you need at 0%, would we cry so much about it? Nope. That’s what’s more or less been happening since 9/11, when the Fed lowered interest rates to get us out of that shock, and it hasn’t ever been able to meaningfully raise rates since. We “borrowed” from our “home values” until that no longer worked in 2008, which was Phase 1. Now we’re at the end of Phase 2, says me (flipping cars and cheap oil were both hallmarks of Phase 2), with REIT building rental properties for the investment class (so called “housing stocks”) coming to an end as the cost of money goes up. Surprise, surprise.

But inflation has outpaced wage growth since the late 80’s (yes I’m old enough to know and say that) as proof that trickle down economics doesn’t work — inconvenient facts for some. As it turns out, the rich don’t use money to create jobs — they hoard it to pass to their heirs, and they weaponize government with the clout the money buys them to aid and abet their hoarding (I’m old enough to know and say that too, with first hand experience). More inconvenient facts. So what really happens is the rich get richer, and the rest of “us” are left to flip houses (“I do real estate”), flip cars, flip burgers, drive Ubers, work in malls, do nails, wait tables, tend bars, valet cars, cut grass, paint houses, do plumbing… “hustle” for the people who can pay. Guess who those people are. And with 0% debt, investors will build all kinds of businesses to serve that group. Netjet much? I didn’t think so.

[If you’re under 35 or 40 years old, all of this is news to you. The post 9/11 economy is the only one you know. Newsflash: it’s not normal or healthy, and it’s all about to change.]

Among others, they’re the people who didn’t know that little cute M3 they bought as the ___th fun car, which they never drive, is worth WHAT?!?! Sell it.

That’s what makes me think right now is the floor (“plateau”) on E46M prices for the foreseeable future. Not 6months ago, or even 3 — now. The current glut will wash out, and going forward your car will be worth more, as will mine, and others’ here (they know who they are). And since you didn’t buy it for appreciation you won’t care any more then than you do now. It’s a curious side note.

maw

PS… BUT, as I’ve said before and it bears repeating… BMW made over 80Thousand of these. They’re never going to be worth much more than they are now. If they double from here over the next 20 years I’d be shocked. And maybe then I’d sell, if my son doesn’t take first dibs (which he almost certainly will, since I bought it at his behest).

[jet_dogg]

Interesting viewpoints maw. Where is your economics degree from?

[maw1124]

No Econ degree… just thoughts… but I do pay attention to such matters as part of my daily operation for decades.

maw

[IamFODI]

Many posts deleted, some disciplinary action taken.

Please keep it clean, everyone. No politics, no personal attacks. And for those who poked the politics without getting explicitly involved, this is your warning that further pokes will be treated as participation.

[BlueBimmers]

maw1124 - you might like this graph from a CCA/Hagerty briefing in March. E30 M3 is the only BMW that has beaten inflation: https://chrisparente.com/wp-content/...8647446623.jpg

[maw1124]

maw1124 - you might like this graph from a CCA/Hagerty briefing in March. E30 M3 is the only BMW that has beaten inflation: https://chrisparente.com/wp-content/...8647446623.jpg

Thanks for this. It's about what I always expected. Usually it's year 25+ to 30+ that cars show forth as winners or losers, value wise included (but less of a concern). This whole concept of "Young Classics" is a rather new and to my view strange invention.

To be clear, I'd rock an E30M convertible right now if I had one (maybe not sold in North America but easily imported at this point). Someone just paid almost (or over) $40k for a MB W124 Cabrio (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...cabriolet-161/). It wouldn't be me (not athletic enough) but I understand why. Of course, the MB crowd will tell you only the E30M beat inflation because not enough BMWs last long enough to beat inflation. I'm surprised to not see the 635 sharks on that list, or the 2002 tii.

But that's what I had in mind when I bought my E46M -- 20 and 25 years down the line, not 10. Having grown up watching 3 Series convertibles litter the landscape in FL and always look good (when well kept), along with MB SL (Pagoda anyone?), it seems to me there will always be a use for the car. It'll always be fun, it'll always look good, it'll always be well engineered (BMW put a LOT into this final N/A inline 6) and it's value will not go to zero -- this is the signal. Now whether it actually appreciates, beats inflation, etc. -- this is the noise.

I drive a 30+ year old car around now (MB 500E), and that experience leads me to believe it won't be my last. This one will be next, God willing.

maw