The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[Tbonem3]

I can't imagine my car buying decision coming down to seats though.

[oceansize]

I can't imagine my car buying decision coming down to seats though.

True for most, but the roads are super curvy where I live and very nice, it matters. Remember I'm in the back country of TN, I drive hard and see nobody.

[IamFODI]

The opportunity arose to go M5 and, well, it’s just so large for canyon fun stuff. When I’m not having fun it’s the X5 use case, so I really needed something to fill the ‘fun’ void. The e39M is just not that car. It is an amazing highway machine it’s sounds like tho!

I thought my E90 M3 was too big and heavy to really enjoy on the Tail of the Dragon. Don't even want to imagine driving an even bigger, heavier, softer car there.

[Obioban]

True for most, but the roads are super curvy where I live and very nice, it matters. Remember I'm in the back country of TN, I drive hard and see nobody.

I actually find the e60 M seats to be plenty supportive. I do not use the dynamic boltsters, because they're stupid, but the seats have never felt bad to be from a stock seat support perspective.

What I hate about the e60 M5 seats is that they are stupidly thick, and ruin back seat space as a result-- I'm pretty sure that's why I find the e39 back seat so much more useable than the e60M

[oceansize]

I actually find the e60 M seats to be plenty supportive. I do not use the dynamic boltsters, because they're stupid, but the seats have never seen bad to be from a support perspective.

What I hate about the e60 M5 seats is that they are stupidly thick, and ruin back seat space as a result-- I'm pretty sure that's why I find the e39 back seat so much more useable than the e60M

You are steady in your utilitarian perspective. I'm steady in that utility, or having a car be a multipurpose vehicle, rarely ever enters my mind, , but my kids are now in college so there is that. I buy a cars because I want them and typically want them for a specific reason. I guess I'm enjoying being selfish again, passengers be darned lol. To top it off I'm currently debating getting a new Miata in which there is exactly zero utility. This would replace my 2016 OEM+ Focus ST but I'm honestly having hard time parting with that car. I know it isn't anything special but I just like it, a lot.

[maw1124]

I can't imagine my car buying decision coming down to seats though.

Until you drive the car for distance, or for more than fun. I've driven the Benzes for 9-13 hours no problem. 3 hours in the M3 -- a quick jaunt to Miami -- and I can't wait to get out the damned thing. And I'm not a big guy. The seats are, well, 3series quality. The E39M seats are 5Series quality. And none of these are SClass quality. It is what it is, and here "quality" can mean whatever you want it to mean.

maw

[tlow98]

I thought my E90 M3 was too big and heavy to really enjoy on the Tail of the Dragon. Don't even want to imagine driving an even bigger, heavier, softer car there.

And that’s the other one I was considering. I owned an E91 328i in the past, as well. Similar traits to the e39 - more fun at higher speeds, and less at lower. I put the m3 control arms on it with monoballs in the thrust position, as well. Koni yellows on OE sport springs. It was very competent, and yet, somehow not exciting.

So here I find myself back at the e46 chassis.

Also, something I’ve wondered about and will likely try to build next is the e87 with the full e9x m3 treatment. Maybe 4” off the axle of that chassis will be the Goldilocks combination?

[repoman89]

To top it off I'm currently debating getting a new Miata in which there is exactly zero utility.

I had a 2021 soft top that I bought new until recently. Really fun little car, more so than my E46 M3 in most ways on public roads. Unfortunately I discovered the hard way that I’m not a vert guy but luckily was able to sell back for about what I paid.

[jet_dogg]

You are steady in your utilitarian perspective. I'm steady in that utility, or having a car be a multipurpose vehicle, rarely ever enters my mind, , but my kids are now in college so there is that. I buy a cars because I want them and typically want them for a specific reason. I guess I'm enjoying being selfish again, passengers be darned lol. To top it off I'm currently debating getting a new Miata in which there is exactly zero utility. This would replace my 2016 OEM+ Focus ST but I'm honestly having hard time parting with that car. I know it isn't anything special but I just like it, a lot.

I always get a kick out of the utility talk. My m3 is in the process of becoming as little utilitarian as possible, yet others brag about fitting appliances or golf clubs inside.

I'm not driving cross country in it nor would I want to as there are other cars and planes for that. I say good on you for doing what you want for yourself and not others.

[Obioban]

Until you drive the car for distance, or for more than fun. I've driven the Benzes for 9-13 hours no problem. 3 hours in the M3 -- a quick jaunt to Miami -- and I can't wait to get out the damned thing. And I'm not a big guy. The seats are, well, 3series quality. The E39M seats are 5Series quality. And none of these are SClass quality. It is what it is, and here "quality" can mean whatever you want it to mean.

maw

Amusingly enough, I've actually been debating putting e38 seats into my M5 (they're plug and play). My M5 seats are getting tired, so I either need to rewrap them, replace them, or move to something else.

That said...
I'm not sure "quality" is the correct word for what you're looking for. S class "priorities" might be more accurate. They prioritize comfort over weight, lateral support, or small profile (huge car means it can have a larger seat and backs seat leg room). An S class seat would make an M3 worse-- completely mismatched. An M3 seat would also make an S class worse.

But, yes, for a cross country drive, the S class seat have better aligned priorities for sure.

[Obioban]

If you ever get to drive a W204 C63 my comments will become clear with respect to the seats. They really are a much better seat for a four door “sports car”.

I've driven a couple W204 C63s and never thought about the seats-- making me think they're... unremarkable?

The worst factory seats I've probably ever driven in were in a first gen C63 Black Series. Absurdly uncomfortable.

[maw1124]

The SClass seats have great lateral support, but it comes at an expense (dynamic air bolsters, massaging, heating, yadaX3, all of which increase weight, complexity and ownership costs) and yes they’re way big for a 3 series. Just as good in spirited driving but more comfortable for the long haul, is the only real comparison I’m making — a similar point to the cars. They both perform — one feels like you’re doing more (“engaging”) while the other one feels like you’re doing less (“sedate”). Obviously I’m the same size guy driving both cars more or less the same way.

But looking at this (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3BO...utm_campaign=e), transmission aside it’s a shame they chose to wrap such a nice drive train in this sheet metal and interior. Hopefully those folks are all fired now.

maw

EDIT, as an aside, my S55 seats are 16yrs old with 150k on the clock and are nowhere near “tired”. So “quality” is exactly the word I was looking for. Soft touch buttons were a problem there too, though.

[Mr. Wolfe]

While we are on the seat talk... I removed the seats out of my e46M for some good conditioning and JC are these things heavy!! I think I pulled my back out.

Mr. Wolfe

[Obioban]

The SClass seats have great lateral support, but it comes at an expense (dynamic air bolsters, massaging, heating, yadaX3, all of which increase weight, complexity and ownership costs) and yes they’re way big for a 3 series. Just as good in spirited driving but more comfortable for the long haul, is the only real comparison I’m making — a similar point to the cars. They both perform — one feels like you’re doing more (“engaging”) while the other one feels like you’re doing less (“sedate”). Obviously I’m the same size guy driving both cars more or less the same way.

But looking at this (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3BO...utm_campaign=e), transmission aside it’s a shame they chose to wrap such a nice drive train in this sheet metal and interior. Hopefully those folks are all fired now.

maw

EDIT, as an aside, my S55 seats are 16yrs old with 150k on the clock and are nowhere near “tired”. So “quality” is exactly the word I was looking for. Soft touch buttons were a problem there too, though.

My e39 M5 seat are old enough to drink and 200,000 miles old. They only recently started showing signs of wear.

The actually high quality Mercedes seats are their vinyl seats from the 80s, when they didn't care about killing all the baby seals. I've never seen a set of those that didn't look brand new, today, 40 years later.

[shibui]

To back up what was previously said in this thread:

I've had both an E34 M5 and W203 C55 AMG. I recently drove some E39 M5s because I was thinking of buying one. Even with the manual, the experience of the to me was far closer to the AMG then its E34 predecessor, which I would rightfully describe as a proper sports sedan. It was a great car, just not what I was looking for. So I ended up not getting one.

For the purposes of daily driving and long distance trips, I'd probably take something with equal/greater torque/power and a higher POV/+ground clearance, and there are a load of modern SUVs that fit that bill.