S54 Dyno Database

[Rudbari]

Nice, looks like a strong running motor!

Stock motor but the key is snow Performace kit made a big difference

[stash1]

Stock motor but the key is snow Performace kit made a big difference

Gotcha, so using methanol?

[Rudbari]

Gotcha, so using methanol?

Yes these numbers with methanols mate

[Martyn]

- Euro 2004 E46 M3
- Milltek Center Section
- RM Motors Decat
- Stock Rear Box
- Eventuri with air temp bung
- AEM ECU





I then added the following:

- CAT 272/280 Cams with BMW DLC coated followers
- Siemens Deka 60lb Injectors
- Radium Fuel Rail
- No tune changes other than injector scaling



Then with tuning



Then I fitted the Evolve Carbon Intake



Then ran the car again, with no tune changes!

A loss almost everywhere!



Then with more tweaking:



So, not quite the result I was expecting with the airbox, however I did pick up more midrange, and chunk up top along with more torque from 3.5K onwards.

Overall, it seems that the stock plenum is VERY well designed and adding CSL style air boxes don't always mean more power!

[digger]

Who did the tuning ?

[paulclaude]

- Euro 2004 E46 M3
- Milltek Center Section
- RM Motors Decat
- Stock Rear Box
- Eventuri with air temp bung
- AEM ECU

I then added the following:

- CAT 272/280 Cams with BMW DLC coated followers
- Siemens Deka 60lb Injectors
- Radium Fuel Rail
- No tune changes other than injector scaling

Then with tuning

Then I fitted the Evolve Carbon Intake

Then ran the car again, with no tune changes!

A loss almost everywhere!

Then with more tweaking:

So, not quite the result I was expecting with the airbox, however I did pick up more midrange, and chunk up top along with more torque from 3.5K onwards.

Overall, it seems that the stock plenum is VERY well designed and adding CSL style air boxes don't always mean more power!

Great development Martyn - nice approach to testing each change as well. Very surprising result from the Evolve airbox too, not what i've seen in the past. Will be trying something similar on my own dyno and see how it fairs

[Martyn]

Who did the tuning ?

I did.

[Martyn]

Great development Martyn - nice approach to testing each change as well. Very surprising result from the Evolve airbox too, not what i've seen in the past. Will be trying something similar on my own dyno and see how it fairs

Cheers dude!

[stash1]

Thanx for contributing to the database Martyn! I’m still not used to looking at graphs from that side of the pond...but results don’t seem typical to me. So, is your delta around 15 whp from the first to last graph...after adding cams, airbox, injectors?

[Martyn]

Thanx for contributing to the database Martyn! I’m still not used to looking at graphs from that side of the pond...but results don’t seem typical to me. So, is your delta around 15 whp from the first to last graph...after adding cams, airbox, injectors?

On the face of it, yeah! I kind of expected a slightly bigger delta but perhaps I've found the next restriction.

The general consensus with euro tuners is that US (W)HP = euro BHP, we don't tend to use WHP figures.

So in comparison, a stock euro E46 M3 generally makes 315-330 BHP over here, a healthy car with an airbox and supporting mods generally makes 340-360 BHP etc

[stash1]

On the face of it, yeah! I kind of expected a slightly bigger delta but perhaps I've found the next restriction.

The general consensus with euro tuners is that US (W)HP = euro BHP, we don't tend to use WHP figures.

So in comparison, a stock euro E46 M3 generally makes 315-330 BHP over here, a healthy car with an airbox and supporting mods generally makes 340-360 BHP etc

Wow, yeah, that’s a huge difference from our 275ish WHP for a stock car! I know that Euro cars have their CAT’s in Section I vs. in the headers, but that sounds like a big jump in power for just moving the CAT’s around? So, you made 374 BHP-right? That’s higher than the 340-360 BHP avg. you quoted, sooo...by those stds., I would say that you’re doing great! Unless I’m missing something?

[Anri]

Wow, yeah, that’s a huge difference from our 275ish WHP for a stock car! I know that Euro cars have their CAT’s in Section I vs. in the headers, but that sounds like a big jump in power for just moving the CAT’s around? So, you made 374 BHP-right? That’s higher than the 340-360 BHP avg. you quoted, sooo...by those stds., I would say that you’re doing great! Unless I’m missing something?

Stash1,

I use to live at that side of the pond I am not a fan of how European's do a dyno.
Their dyno relays on crank or called flywheel hp.

Whit another words, no one knows how much is the dyno calculating the drive train loses.

Why I like Dyno-Jet at 14% drive train losses some consider 15% bit I am at 14%.
Std E46M3 on dynojet puts down somewerw between 275rwhp to 280rwhp. Ones you have
that % figured and then you ad parts you know the gains at the crank by calculating 14% One
takes 333hp crank SAE and -14%-15% you come up to that number +/- with very small
variations like weather temp, humidity, worn out engine etc are subject to this minimal variation.

I have friend in EU Germany who tuned his E39M5 and per the dyno and tuner he pulls 460hp crank
only from Tune. There is no S62 in existence that will produce 60hp at the crank gain from 400hp
factory crank hp, from tune only !!!! period put on pump fuel.

S62 with the best spoke tune will make ~25-30hp crank maaaaax. 415 SAE crank - 14%= around
356rwhp. So 460hp DIN - 22% should match what a healthy tuned S62 will produce in US Dyno-Jet.

Per our US calculation 460hp crank - 14% we should see 396rwhp dyno-jet something that will
never ever happen from tune only. Perkins build S62 will be in that range of power.

Dyno HP should be calculate coming from Factory numbers. Meaning if we take std E46M3 to
a European Dyno we should see exact in the range 339-343hp crank....as how BMW AG
advertised in EU E46M3 at the Geneva autoshow back in 1999.

EU dyno do fluctuate by tremendous amount and one will never see consistency as how we
see here in US using Dyno-Jet.

Regards,
Anri

[stash1]

Stash1,

I use to live at that side of the pond I am not a fan of how European's do a dyno.
Their dyno relays on crank or called flywheel hp.

Whit another words, no one knows how much is the dyno calculating the drive train loses.

Why I like Dyno-Jet at 14% drive train losses some consider 15% bit I am at 14%.
Std E46M3 on dynojet puts down somewerw between 275rwhp to 280rwhp. Ones you have
that % figured and then you ad parts you know the gains at the crank by calculating 14% One
takes 333hp crank SAE and -14%-15% you come up to that number +/- with very small
variations like weather temp, humidity, worn out engine etc are subject to this minimal variation.

I have friend in EU Germany who tuned his E39M5 and per the dyno and tuner he pulls 460hp crank
only from Tune. There is no S62 in existence that will produce 60hp at the crank gain from 400hp
factory crank hp, from tune only !!!! period put on pump fuel.

S62 with the best spoke tune will make ~25-30hp crank maaaaax. 415 SAE crank - 14%= around
356rwhp. So 460hp DIN - 22% should match what a healthy tuned S62 will produce in US Dyno-Jet.

Per our US calculation 460hp crank - 14% we should see 396rwhp dyno-jet something that will
never ever happen from tune only. Perkins build S62 will be in that range of power.

Dyno HP should be calculate coming from Factory numbers. Meaning if we take std E46M3 to
a European Dyno we should see exact in the range 339-343hp crank....as how BMW AG
advertised in EU E46M3 at the Geneva autoshow back in 1999.

US dyno do fluctuate by tremendous amount and one will never see consistency as how we
see her in US using Dyno-Jet.

Regards,
Anri

Yep, think we’re on the same page. When I said the avg. stock M3 makes around 275-ish WHP...I was referring to SAE Dynojet numbers. What I’m still puzzled about though is the fact the Martyn’s projected 340-360 BHP number is about on par w/our DJ numbers w/similar mods...yet his stock base numbers seem way higher than our WHP numbers?

[Anri]

Yep, think we’re on the same page. When I said the avg. stock M3 makes around 275-ish WHP...I was referring to SAE Dynojet numbers. What I’m still puzzled about though is the fact the Martyn’s projected 340-360 BHP number is about on par w/our DJ numbers w/similar mods...yet his stock base numbers seem way higher than our WHP numbers?

Stash1,

Absolutely on the same page, indeed here in US we are measuring SAE.

I am very picky on dyno numbers and dyno settings. I hate cheating also
I hate when a tuner will tune my car and set the dyno to show stupid low rwhp. It did
happen ones...and will never happen again. DanM. tuned one M6 and the dyno
showed 180rwhp on Mustang Dyno and after his tune the wheel showed 212rwhp.
Hmm so std M6 is 227rwhp Dyno-Jet.....so sure he made gain of 32rwhp.

My point is that. If the Dyno-Jet rollers are lubricated, the weather factor box is
operating as it should, straps are not done for HP. Tire pressure is not at 70psi
you get what I am saying right ?...proper set up.

We can get a very darn close to what aaaalll tuners and these hi performance parts,
cams, exhaust etc can show as of real gain over std car being at SAE 333 US spec.

Another factor I have seen Dyno operators do is they perform passes in a
low gear. What I mean is say we have 4.10 rear gear and 3rd gear ratio is 1.66 which is relatively
short gear, when the operator start the pass at say 3000rpm the engine accelerates
the roller fast and for very short time to rev limiter. Indeed S54s in NA form with cams or without
will never ever spin wheels but but but the proper way is to put hi gear 5th and perform
long pass, not short pass.

Martyn is making gains for sure with his tune. Dyno is a measuring tool for performance parts
nothing wrong with that, but personally I prefer the other way around.

Stan, don't keep trying to find logic because it will never make sense to you. Again 333SAE Crank
HP - 14-15% is around 275-280ish few here few there.

As Martyn says S54 BHP in UK makes between 315-330BHP meaning crank hp so we are somewhere between
13-33hp from what BMW AG rates the S54 at 343hp DIN crank for EU market so were is the logic ? so say
we put (30) S54 cars on same dyno and most % shows 310-315 BHP crank average, were is the logic ?

At last, most people think a Tuner is a Magician, they can do so much. I have been a witness
of were tuner will spent good amount of time to squeeze every bit of the engine and were there
is no more room the limits are met.

Customer's response is "That's it ?!?! I was expecting more".......

On S54 std engine when the US cats are moved towards the back so that the
exhaust pressure is reduced and a good tuner tunes the engine and what ever gains are that is it.
Beyond that point one must open the check book and the first number is $5000k and up for Box, Cams,
rockers arms, re-tune etc. The snow ball rolls of the cliff....


Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

Stan,

Read the Dyno with cams and box etc.

Do the math and you will see how much the dyno calculation will never make sense to you.

Rear wheel 294rwhp. Crank says 378 BHP (crank HP). So, 378-22%= 294rwhp.

Hope this will make more sense to you ?

Regards,
Anri.