288/280 vs 280/272 cams.

[D-O]

I have not, but I've done enough cars to piece a clear enough picture of what to expect with each setup.With that said, cams aren't a magic bullet. The has to be in top shape otherwise obviously, I've seen stock cam cars make more than some cammed cars, and some cammed cars making 50 whp more( with similar state of tune barring cams)..so ymmv. But in general, the trend in power gain is as described above.
To others who've asked, yes if I had to do it again, I'd still get the mods bit by bit. Cams, then airbox (or vise versa ) then exhaust etc... At the end of the day, what you really get out of this is the journey, the added performance is just a side effecet imho Also each individually add power on their own, and of course they work even better combined. At the end of the day, it's NA mods

This is good to know. On everything I have built in the past (muscle cars) the OEM exhaust systems were so bad that there were no real gains to be had without tackling that first.

I would really like in increase torque between three and six thousand RPM. Do the 280/272 cams provide any increase in this range?

Jesse

[NZ_M3]

I was under the impression that the "CSL hesitation" was something that only happened to MAP-less alpha-n setups? Or maybe I'm conflating two different problems. Is this something that happens on real CSLs?

I have done so many CSL airbox conversions here in NZ for others and I have never ever had a case of the so called hesitation.

I even made a video for someone in the States privately of my CSL trying to replicate the so called hesitation at various gears from 3000rpm and have not been able to replicate it at all.

i have however managed to replicate it via an Alpha N tune I received from the UK so I do know what it is and what it feels like.

A correctly converted car with a healthy engine just doesn’t have this issue. Period.

I have had my converted M3 with the csl airbox also for just over 3 years now and it has 189k km and I have not been able to replicate this issue either with it.

[digger]

Interestingly enough on one of the other forums I was on a guy who had a genuine CSL said occasionally he found little blips with it but never with the stock maf version when he had the regular m3

[duracellttu]

Interestingly enough on one of the other forums I was on a guy who had a genuine CSL said occasionally he found little blips with it but never with the stock maf version when he had the regular m3

Oh wow, that's new information. Maybe this isn't a much of an issue as it seems.

[duracellttu]

What power did you get in the end mate ?

Just created a separate thread with my build details and results. See below...

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...w-dyno-results

[EzM3]

Hey all, I'm kinda new to the cam world (it's teased me ever since I saw the group buy on the old forum)... I daily my car, so I'd like to go with 280/272- do I need to just buy cams and throw them in? Or are there any other parts I need to buy with 280/272s? I suppose tune as well.

Thanks guys. Some awesome information and knowledgeable guys on this thread.

[Altaran]

Hey all, I'm kinda new to the cam world (it's teased me ever since I saw the group buy on the old forum)... I daily my car, so I'd like to go with 280/272- do I need to just buy cams and throw them in? Or are there any other parts I need to buy with 280/272s? I suppose tune as well.

Thanks guys. Some awesome information and knowledgeable guys on this thread.

There was a discussion on the first page of this thread on that. Personally I would always exchange the followers. Even though cams only rotate half the speed of the crank, it is still 4k rpm with these cars and I would not put anything in less than perfect state on it.

There is also an alternative to Schrick followers: E90 320is stock followers. Same design as S54, just coated from the factory. Seems BMW learned from something....
These used to be quite cheap by comparison, but recently they have increase the price.

[stash1]

There is also an alternative to Schrick followers: E90 320is stock followers. Same design as S54, just coated from the factory. Seems BMW learned from something....
These used to be quite cheap by comparison, but recently they have increase the price.

Ehhh, can anyone else confirm this, and what does pricing look like?

[Martyn]

Ehhh, can anyone else confirm this, and what does pricing look like?

This is true, i have them in my motor. I paid around 45 euro per follower from Leebmann.

[BMWahba]

interesting find...

[bigjae46]

I think the 280/272s are a better choice for cars that see any street use.
-Better power below ~7800 rpm
-can reuse stock followers, which makes install much easier (and cheaper)
-smoother idle

I wouldn't be tempted by the 288/280 setup unless I was doing an increase compression ratio and/or stroker and/or high revving (8700+ rpm) build. For a "normal" (full exhaust, CSL intake, etc) bolt on build, 280/272 is the way to go IMO.

Thoughts on whether there is any value in head porting with a CSL airbox and 288/280s or even 280/272s?

[Obioban]

Thoughts on whether there is any value in head porting with a CSL airbox and 288/280s or even 280/272s?

Don’t really know definitively, but I’ve heard it said many times that there’s some room for improvement on the exhaust side but not much to be gained on the intake
side.

[stash1]

This is true, i have them in my motor. I paid around 45 euro per follower from Leebmann.

Sooo, about $40 cheaper per follower? That’s significant!

Edit: Nvmd, see the Schricks are available for around $70 ea, sooo...about a $20 savings per follower. Still pretty significant when you factor that you need 24.

[duracellttu]

Thoughts on whether there is any value in head porting with a CSL airbox and 288/280s or even 280/272s?

I had the exhaust side ported on my head when my head was being built with 288/280 cams. (I also have a full SS exhaust with 2.5" sec 1 & 2.) The results were seen in my dyno graph, to which Andrew Lang and Paul Claudes both noticed. At ~6300 rpms my HP slope took a sharp curve upwards. I considered porting the intake side, but didn't because I kept the stock TBs. With a CSL intake you are already getting a lot more air flow to the engine. You might not see the difference with porting the intake unless you also did Dinan TBs, where you could match the new TB diameter. Or if you built the engine out and went with 14mm lift cams, to take advantage of the additional available air.

[Altaran]

Don’t really know definitively, but I’ve heard it said many times that there’s some room for improvement on the exhaust side but not much to be gained on the intake
side.

Strange: I have a factory modified head from BMW Motorsport at home (from the original P54B32) and BMW ported the combustion chambers, the valve seats as well as the intake side. Exhaust was not touched. Wondering if I should get that done beofre installing...