DuracellTTU Build: 280/288 Cams, Lang Head, CSL Airbox, Full SS w/ Dyno Results

[duracellttu]

J thanks for updating, solid numbers and glad some gains were made.

The fuck is hd tuning?

Matt from HD Tuning is really big in the e39 M5 community. I had dyno time with him for the M5 and decided to do the M3 at the same time. Wasn't worth the time or effort in hind site…

[SQ13]

Dammit I need to get cams and pulleys. Great work dude!

[duracellttu]

Dammit I need to get cams and pulleys. Great work dude!

Do it! This has been a work in progress over the course of 4 years. I've run into so many small little problems that have prevented me from driving the car. I FINALLY feel like it's all sorted. Such a huge weight off my shoulders.

I'll share some more random pics of the build progress and work. Got a really cool video of the TB at WOT with the injector spraying in slow motion.

[bmw m3 s50]

Thank you for posting your progression along with dynos. Your latest results are pretty impressive. It seems that fueling was what cured your problem. It sucks that when I first posted, I didn't mention about upgrading the injectors. Other members had similar results as you did until they upgraded the injectors. I am going to be doing a similar NA build in the future and hope I arrive at the 350-360whp mark.

[duracellttu]

Thank you for posting your progression along with dynos. Your latest results are pretty impressive. It seems that fueling was what cured your problem. It sucks that when I first posted, I didn't mention about upgrading the injectors. Other members had similar results as you did until they upgraded the injectors. I am going to be doing a similar NA build in the future and hope I arrive at the 350-360whp mark.

In hind site it totally makes sense that the injectors were the limiting factor in the build. When asking Hassan about the duty cycle on the new tune he told me that he had about 45% more duty cycle to go on these injectors. That's tells me that this setup is running at 55% duty cycle which is right in the sweet spot.

[chapmans]

Do you need to do the fuel rail and everything or can you just upgrade the injectors themselves?

[duracellttu]

Do you need to do the fuel rail and everything or can you just upgrade the injectors themselves?

Well it depends. The new injectors are not the same physical dimensions as the stock ones. They are taller so there is some geometry you need to take into consideration. I made the post below on another thread but it's worth posting here again. If you are willing to use injectors smaller that 550cc then there are other options that are in the same family of the stock injector which make them plug and play. Choose your own destiny. My logic was that it is easier to tune back a larger injector than swap hardware again because you maxed out a smaller one. I also didn't want to modify the stock hardware and kept it.

I went through LOTS of trial and error before finding this solution. Hope this makes it easier for others in the future.

TLDR - you can modify (enlarge) the stock fuel rail mounting holes to work with the taller injectors or upgrade to the radium rail using the method below.

I just went though this entire install using Bosch 550cc EV14 injectors, Radium fuel rail/plumbing, and a CSL air rail. There are a few critical geometries that you need to take into consideration. I'll try to explain each. It took me a lot of trial and error before getting to a proper configuration. Ready through this entire post before attempting to install. I'll try and find the part numbers of the misc hardware sourced at Home Depot later and add it.

1) Depth of the injector: if you don't use a spacer the lower injector o-ring won't properly seat. The thickness of the space is also important because if it's too tall it will affect the clearance with the rear vacuum line on the air rail. I'll explain more later. I initially used the Rally Road spacers and they didn't work for me. Using 2 of the McMaster Carr notched washers was perfect.

Note: The green lower o-rings that came with the new injectors didn't feel like they fit at tightly in the throttle body. I measured a 0.25mm different in the total width between the stock and new injectors with the o-rings on. To solve this I used the stock upper o-ring on the lower section of the new injectors, removing the green one all together. The injectors fit nice and tight with this setup.

Note: the upper o-ring (blue) on the new injectors felts tight and didn't see a need to use a thicker one.

2) Height of the fuel rail: if you use the stock fuel rail it will sit too high because the E14 injectors are taller than the stock injectors. This will not allow the two 10mm mounting bolts to align which keeps the air rail and fuel rail secured. The solution is to use the Radium fuel rail because the mounts are separate prices from the mail section of the rail and you can use washers as spaces to adjust the total height of the rail relative to the mounting points. I used 2 washers as spacers on each side and and found slightly longer M5 bolts. That worked out perfect.

3) Height of the air rail: the rear vacuum line that attaches to the U-tube (next to the firewall) will interfere with fuel rail since the fuel rail now sits higher. The Radium installation instructions identify this and state that you need to bend the small vacuum metal tube upward using a small wrench. If you don't bend this line it will come in contact with the fuel rail and you won't be able to get the air rail to fully seat on the individual tubes and align with the (2) 10mm mounting bolts. You can use a step drill to enlarge the mount holes on the air rail so it can sit higher, but I didn't want to mangle the air rail. Instead I carefully bent the rear vacuum hard line until it no longer came into contact with the fuel rail.

4) Fuel Injector Wiring Harness: the EV14 adapters will make the harness sit higher. You will need to create more slack so that there is not a lot of tension on the injectors. To do this remove the top section of the black plastic throttle body protection. This is the piece that mounts with (3) 10mm nuts on TB 6 next to the firewall. If you don't remove this you will run into issues with connecting the plumbing to the Radium fuel rail and you will not be able to move the injector harness upward for more slack.

[heinzboehmer]

2) Height of the fuel rail: if you use the stock fuel rail it will sit too high because the E14 injectors are taller than the stock injectors. This will not allow the two 10mm mounting bolts to align which keeps the air rail and fuel rail secured. The solution is to use the Radium fuel rail because the mounts are separate prices from the mail section of the rail and you can use washers as spaces to adjust the total height of the rail relative to the mounting points. I used 2 washers as spacers on each side and and found slightly longer M5 bolts. That worked out perfect.

So the only reason why the stock fuel rail won't work is because the holes for the two 10mm bolts don't line up? Is it possible to slot the mounting holes and keep the stock rail?

[duracellttu]

So the only reason why the stock fuel rail won't work is because the holes for the two 10mm bolts don't line up? Is it possible to slot the mounting holes and keep the stock rail?

I suppose you could, but you have to remember that the fuel rail mounts have the threads to secure the 10mm bolts. You would have to slot the throttle body bolt pass-thru mounts.

[chapmans]

Are there any bigger flow injectors that are the stock form factor and are plug and play? Doesn't sound like it.

[heinzboehmer]

I suppose you could, but you have to remember that the fuel rail mounts have the threads to secure the 10mm bolts. You would have to slot the throttle body bolt pass-thru mounts.

Aaah right, I had it backwards in my mind. Should be doable to remove that brazed nut, slot the hole and reattach the nut further down.

Thanks for posting all that info above! If I ever do cams, I'll probably do injectors at the same time.

[duracellttu]

Are there any bigger flow injectors that are the stock form factor and are plug and play? Doesn't sound like it.

Depends on how much larger you want/need to go. I went with 550cc injectors based on another member's success with that size and a similar engine build with supporting mods.

See post #26 in the link below for plug and play options.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/181507-bosch-style-injectors-leaking/page2#post211070

[jet_dogg]

I don't think it was because of the injectors causing the low numbers nor do I think anybody without the full mods list needs them.

[EthanolTurbo]

Matt from HD Tuning is really big in the e39 M5 community. I had dyno time with him for the M5 and decided to do the M3 at the same time. Wasn't worth the time or effort in hind site…

He is so overrated by the E39 M5 community. Every time I mention that HTE does better tunes I am met with scorn and derision.

[Nate047]

Nice numbers! Must be a blast to drive... I would be morbidly curious to know the total bill for all of this over 4 years lol