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    Everything about Fat Cat Motorsport Suspension

    There has been a lot of recent discussion and interest about Fat Cat Motorsports (FCM) suspension. Let's use this thread as a consolidated source of information.

    I will start off by breaking down the discussion into a few different topics:
    1. Background on FCM
    2. Flat Ride
    3. FCM Dampers
    4. Spring Options
    Background on FCM

    Here is the company's website: http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/

    YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKa...DXcdeRtq4Fbukw

    In short, FCM is located in Redwood City, CA (outside of San Francisco). The owner of FCM was a member on the m3f and is a member on the nam3fourum here as well. Not only that, but he owns an e46 330i converted race car that he calls "Christina". He posts here on occasion and has a ton of great content on his YouTube channel (link above).

    FCM also offers consulting, reach out to them for pricing.

    Flat Ride

    Flat Ride Thread: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...​​​​

    Flat Ride Calculator Spreadsheet: http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM..._M3_Online.htm

    The YouTube channel has several videos on how FCM defines "Flat Ride" and "Ride Harmony". He also has a video on some basics about how to use the flat ride spread sheet calculator Check that out HERE.

    There is already another thread on this topic, so I wont recreate the discussion, but here is the Cliff's Notes version. The approach to achieving Flat Ride and ride harmony is defined by understanding the relationship between the front and rear bounce frequencies in your suspension. You can calculating the bounce frequencies by using front and rear spring rates and plugging them into the spreadsheet calculator. The ratio of these bounce frequencies (R/F) should be >1.0 to achieve flat ride. That means your rear bounce frequency needs to be greater than the front. For a more comfort focused setup, target ~15% Flat Ride and for more of a GT setup ~7%. You can also calculate the front roll couple (FRC) by entering in your sway bar dimensions. Don't worry, the spreadsheet has dimensions for several of the most common sway bar options on the e46 already listed in a table. Understanding the total stiffness (front and rear) will allow to calculate the FRC. The FRC is a metric used to determine to understeer and oversteer. For the e46 M3 a range of low to upper 70% FRC are typically what owners run.

    NOTE: Everybody's personal preferences differ. The above target my suggestions based on the research and learning I've done. Use these is information as a guide, but ultimately you need to decide what suites your needs and desires. Use at your own risk. Better yet, get some consulting time with FCM and have them advise you.

    As a reference, here are the suspension calculations on a stock e46 M3. These details are listed in the spreadsheet calculator by default.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	e46 M3 stock flat ride.JPG Views:	0 Size:	41.0 KB ID:	58366


    FCM Dampers

    If you want to learn more about suspension fundamentals, check out his YouTube playlist HERE. There are some good videos to learn the basics.

    Let's talk about the dampers before springs, because if you choose to go with the FCM dampers you will need to know the correct spring ID and lengths to be compatible.

    At this time FCM only offers two different kits, Stage 2 and Stage 3 Elite. He no longer offers a Stage 1 and I'm not even sure what the original Stage 1 specs were. Both Stage 2 and Stage 3 kits are optimized dampers using custom internals that FCM has designed and refine over the several years he has been in business. He uses an off-the-shelf H&R Street Performance coilover kit (P/N 50415), which at basically rebrand Bilstein monotube damper. These dampers are NOT adjustable, but are tuned to the spring rates your choose when calculating the specific Flat Ride you want. Neither Stage 2 nor Stage 3 come with any warranty. FMC will rebuild dampers and charge by the hour for that labor.

    EliteStage 2 Details - Custom build dampers (as described above) with "Ripple Reducer". Watch the video HERE on details for what Ripple Reducer does.

    Elite Stage 3 Ultimate Details- Custom build dampers (as described above) with "Ripple Reducer" and "Kerb Blow Off" (KBO). What the video HERE on details for what KBO does.

    NOTE: When discussing pricing, it important to know that you are responsible for purchasing the H&R kit on top of what FCM charges for rebuilding for either Stage 2 or Stage 3. I know that they are in the process of updating their pricing structure, so reach out to FCM for the latest. That being said, this is a custom kit, and priced accordingly. It is more expensive than most off-the-shelf kits.

    Here are some additional details for the H&R front and rear damper damper shafts. You will need to know this info for making sure your camber plates and rear shock mounts fit correctly. I am using Vorshlag camber plates and rear shock mounts. They have all the dimension info already, just let them know you are using the H&R dampers.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	BMW_E46_M3_H&R_Street_Performance_front_strut_rear_shock_top_mount_dims (1).jpg Views:	18 Size:	224.3 KB ID:	58230


    Spring Options

    I wont go into a lot of details here, but lets first talk about the springs that come with the H&R Street performance kit. FCM has measured the springs in the H&R Street Performance kit (see the data below). They are 323 lbs/in (front) and 445 lbs/in (rear) linear springs. Be aware that the spring rates that come with this kit do no give you Flat Ride. These spring rates result in 1.8 Hz front and 1.6 Hz rear bounce frequencies. Consider getting new springs.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	E46_M3_H&R_Street_Performance_coilover_spring_rates_FCM (1).PNG
Views:	3280
Size:	67.9 KB
ID:	58368

    For those going with aftermarket springs, Swift, Eibach, and Hyperco are all good options.

    FRONT - The H&R front dampers use a 60mm ID lower spring perch. If you go with a linear spring, then your camber plate will obviously need a 60mm ID upper spring perch. A 7 inch spring length will work well for giving you a 13.5" front ride height (measured from the middle of the wheel to the fender arch).

    REAR - The H&R kit comes with adjustable rear spring perches with I believe accommodate a 60mm (or 2.25 inch) ID spring. I don't have them yet, so I can confirm (I'll be sure to follow up and updates this section accordingly). The spring perch you use for the rear spring will dictate what spring length you should use. If you use the H&R perch from the kit, then a 6 inch will work. If you use a Ground Control or Rogue Engineering articulating spring perch, then use a 5 inch spring. That should get you a 13.0" rear ride height (measured from the middle of the wheel to the fender arch).


    Final Thoughts

    If you found this useful and end up reaching out to FCM for a kit or consultation, please mention this thread. I'm happy to add more information as I learn more. Let me know if you want me to add anything else specifically to the sections above.
    Last edited by duracellttu; 09-27-2020, 10:10 AM.
    2005 BMW M3 ZCP Black/Black - HTE Tuning | Kassel CSL DME | 288/280 Schrick Cams+DLC Followers | Lang Head | Dinan TBs | Bosch 550cc | Radium Fuel System | Karbonious CSL Airbox+OE Snorkel | SS V1 Stepped+Catted Sec 1+Resonated Twin Pipe+Race | 3.91, 3 stage clutch | FCM 400/600 | Vorshlag Camber Plates, RSM | Rogue ASP | AKG FCABs, SFBs | TMS Front Sway, Camber Arms, Monoball RTABs, Pullies | Mason Race Strut + X-Brace | AS 30% SSK | SPAL | Redish Plates | Turbo Toys V2 Hub | WPC Rod Bearings

    #2
    Excellent summary! I’ll be sending FCM a set of dampers for rework this winter. Pretty excited to experience them for myself!

    2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
    2012 LMB/Black 128i
    2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Obioban View Post
      Excellent summary! I’ll be sending FCM a set of dampers for rework this winter. Pretty excited to experience them for myself!
      I ended up going with the Stage 3 Elite kits and hoping to get them in mid-late October. Can’t wait to get them installed. I’ll be reporting back with a review for sure!
      2005 BMW M3 ZCP Black/Black - HTE Tuning | Kassel CSL DME | 288/280 Schrick Cams+DLC Followers | Lang Head | Dinan TBs | Bosch 550cc | Radium Fuel System | Karbonious CSL Airbox+OE Snorkel | SS V1 Stepped+Catted Sec 1+Resonated Twin Pipe+Race | 3.91, 3 stage clutch | FCM 400/600 | Vorshlag Camber Plates, RSM | Rogue ASP | AKG FCABs, SFBs | TMS Front Sway, Camber Arms, Monoball RTABs, Pullies | Mason Race Strut + X-Brace | AS 30% SSK | SPAL | Redish Plates | Turbo Toys V2 Hub | WPC Rod Bearings

      Comment


        #4
        It’s killing me. I have the shocks on my bench waiting— I just don’t like to do projects to my car in spring/summer/fall, so I don’t miss out on driving time.

        Soon 🙄

        2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
        2012 LMB/Black 128i
        2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Obioban View Post
          It’s killing me. I have the shocks on my bench waiting— I just don’t like to do projects to my car in spring/summer/fall, so I don’t miss out on driving time.

          Soon 🙄
          Trust me, I can totally relate. My car is in the garage on quick jacks with half the suspension torn out. I’m dying to get this installed.

          ** Added a few notes to the first post about spring length, ride heights, damper warranty, rebuilds, and KBO. **
          2005 BMW M3 ZCP Black/Black - HTE Tuning | Kassel CSL DME | 288/280 Schrick Cams+DLC Followers | Lang Head | Dinan TBs | Bosch 550cc | Radium Fuel System | Karbonious CSL Airbox+OE Snorkel | SS V1 Stepped+Catted Sec 1+Resonated Twin Pipe+Race | 3.91, 3 stage clutch | FCM 400/600 | Vorshlag Camber Plates, RSM | Rogue ASP | AKG FCABs, SFBs | TMS Front Sway, Camber Arms, Monoball RTABs, Pullies | Mason Race Strut + X-Brace | AS 30% SSK | SPAL | Redish Plates | Turbo Toys V2 Hub | WPC Rod Bearings

          Comment


            #6
            I have Z4M H&R Coils, and the rear perch is the same as the E46 M3 kit, it is 60mm. I also compared the springs from the Z4M kit to the M3 hoping they were the same and no, wire diameter is different.

            I need to schedule my consultation call to decide what I want to do with the springs, because based on wire diameter, the Z4M would be more than yours, which means I would need a hell of a stiff spring at the rear, which I don't want as my intent is for a fast road setup. Seems my idea of front stock with rear TCK barrel springs will be it.

            Comment


              #7
              I can't wait to hear the reviews on the kits. Subscribed for sure.
              '03.5 M3 SMG Coupe - Jet Black / Black

              Comment


                #8
                Super interested in the reviews as well. FCM is local too, I should probably go check them out in person.
                2002 Topasblau M3 - Coupe - 6MT - Karbonius CSL Airbox - MSS54HP Conversion - Kassel MAP - SSV1 - HJS - PCS Tune - Beisan - MK60 Swap - ZCP Rack - Nogaros - AutoSolutions - 996 Brembos - Slon - CMP - VinceBar - Koni - Eibach - BlueBus - Journal

                2012 Alpinweiss 128i - Coupe - 6AT - Slicktop - Manual Seats - Daily - Journal

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for the thread and support, gents. However some information is inaccurate and needs correction. Importantly: my consulting rate is $250 per hour and has been for several years. The $125 he's referring to is for a 30 min consultation, which is required. Additional consulting depends upon the number of specific details we need to cover when designing your Elite suspension.

                  Also, I am returning to my earlier practices of keeping shock dyno data private. I will no longer transmit it electronically or provide printouts. If you come to FCM headquarters, I can show you your final graphs. That's more than any top chef would do! The proof is in the tasting.

                  Finally, KBO is NOT like Ohlins DFV. Ohlins DFV does no appreciate 'high speed compression' blow-off. Compare this graph and a earlier FCM Elite KBO vs. an Ohlins DFV. The compression blow-off on the Ohlins is like a digressive, vs. the ACTUALLY flatter blow-off of the KBO!




                  The 'dual flow valve' is doing NOTHING to reduce high speed slope in any way that appears beneficial, certainly not for actual 'curb absorption.' The Kerb Blow-Off technology I have developed assist in truly reducing the high speed compression force build-up and must also be combined with appropriate reduction of high-speed rebound force to minimize jacking down. This is why it's more than just the 'blow-off' on compression that you need, but also a related 'blow-off' on rebound. So it's more correct to describe this as KBO / UltraD (Ultra Digressive) or what I'm pretty much just calling 'FCM Elite Ultimate.'

                  More accurately, KBO was inspired through my studies of the Penske's regressive valve (initially used on Formula 1 cars to help soften the vertical upset to the chassis from curb strikes at very high road speeds) when designing my Kerb Blow-Off valve. I have actually developed a regressive version of the KBO which I will eventually put on Christina in combination with other technologies. I began with developing a flat blow-off (which is what KBO gives you) and then continued my research and development into a 'regressive' blow-off, like the Penske regressive valve.

                  ===

                  FCM Elite Stage 2 is still very well-optimized (it includes Ripple Reducer) and I'm careful to tune the compression and rebound forces to minimize jacking down (excessive rebound) and launching (excessive compression). An FCM Elite Stage 2 build is superior to any product on the market.

                  For those who want the best of everything, you'll want FCM Elite Stage 3 Ultimate. I can use my full arsenal of technologies and methods that help me optimize the suspension's response at a VERY wide range of road conditions - from lightly rippled roads to medium-sized rollers, to large 'bottom the suspension' kinds of bumps.

                  I've spent much of the spring and summer refining my methods beyond what I have in Youtube videos - so while the video on KBO does represent some of the behavior I aim for, there's more going on than just KBO.

                  ===

                  A key point I need to communicate is that I am unlike what you would consider an 'aftermarket suspension vendor.' I create solutions, instead of selling parts. I take your specific, unique needs into account when designing a solution instead of trying to squeeze some off-the-shelf collection of parts into your car. I look at the entire suspension as thoroughly as I can and ensure each key component is considered and changed as required. This can't be overstated! Even using terms like KBO or Ripple Reducer only tells part of the story, as EACH BUILD gets a unique implementation of these technologies! As car weights, spring rates, driver usage, tires / wheels / aero, etc. all differ, how I integrate each technology is different. This is like being taught the basics of a dance step, or a workout routine, and then making your own variations.

                  The major problem I see with a majority of aftermarket tuners is they make a PART or a KIT and then try to push YOU into their box. I first look at what YOU need, then sculpt and refine the ideas and methods into a final result. This is literally a NEW CREATION for every build!

                  Their "sell as many parts as we can" approach creates a chaotic experience, and it even sucks for race cars. Ask duracellttu what he thinks of the TC Kline he's partially removed from his car, and what he felt in driving Christina (he was one of a lucky few to get that privilege).

                  ===

                  Duracellttu is changing from single-adjustable TC Klines and these are two videos I made to show him why his driving experience in Christina was so much more supple and composed than the TC Klines:

                  E46 M3 TC Kline front dyno tests


                  E46 M3 TC Kline rear dyno tests


                  I'll look forward to adding his FCM Elite Stage 3 testimonials to this page, and to the website! Then Ian's later on
                  ===

                  If you are curious about why there are testimonials like this:



                  then you can educate yourself on some of the methods I am using. The 3 Keys of Ride Harmony (VIDEO) is fundamental. As duracell points out the importance of Flat Ride being the foundation of every FCM Elite build.

                  And most importantly, get in touch! Refer to the FatCatMotorsports.com website and words directly from me rather than any forum post for specifics on my current business practices. Each thread that particularly inspires you, I want to hear about when you contact me. As always, big thanks to Ian for creating this new forum.

                  Cheers,
                  Shaikh

                  P.S. I'm going to send duracellttu an email with additional needed corrections. As he's a cool guy and already has a set of H&Rs with me for a Stage 3 build, it's all friendly.
                  Last edited by Suspension Decoder; 09-27-2020, 09:58 AM.
                  Shaikh Jalal Ahmad
                  Suspension Decoder @ Fat Cat Motorsports, Inc.
                  Youtube: Suspension Truth
                  FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer spreadsheet

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by heinzboehmer View Post
                    Super interested in the reviews as well. FCM is local too, I should probably go check them out in person.
                    Glad you're local - but schedule an appointment. I'm a wizard, not Wheel Works!
                    Shaikh Jalal Ahmad
                    Suspension Decoder @ Fat Cat Motorsports, Inc.
                    Youtube: Suspension Truth
                    FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer spreadsheet

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Suspension Decoder View Post

                      Glad you're local - but schedule an appointment. I'm a wizard, not Wheel Works!
                      Ha of course. Didn't mean to sound like I would just go knock on your door. I'm nowhere near finished with other projects that will ultimately affect the suspension build (weight, brakes, usage habits, etc), but I'll reach out when I get to truly tackling the suspension on my car.
                      2002 Topasblau M3 - Coupe - 6MT - Karbonius CSL Airbox - MSS54HP Conversion - Kassel MAP - SSV1 - HJS - PCS Tune - Beisan - MK60 Swap - ZCP Rack - Nogaros - AutoSolutions - 996 Brembos - Slon - CMP - VinceBar - Koni - Eibach - BlueBus - Journal

                      2012 Alpinweiss 128i - Coupe - 6AT - Slicktop - Manual Seats - Daily - Journal

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Forgive the ignorance but what is the difference in what your service offers from what Redshift does? Only reason I'm asking is they also use Bilstein Motorsports inserts in existing bodies. I'm guessing you offer more custom suspension tuning to that?
                        2004 BMW ///M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon 6MT
                        2005 BMW ///M3
                        Interlagos Blue/Black 6MT Dinan S3-R

                        2008 BMW ///M3 Alpine White/Bamboo/6MT Track Build
                        2000 BMW ///M5 Royal Red/Extended Caramel 6MT
                        2004 BMW X5 Toledo Blue/Sand Beige 6MT
                        2023 Toyota Supra //A91-MT CULG/Hazelnut 6MT


                        Instagram

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sharocks View Post
                          Forgive the ignorance but what is the difference in what your service offers from what Redshift does? Only reason I'm asking is they also use Bilstein Motorsports inserts in existing bodies. I'm guessing you offer more custom suspension tuning to that?
                          Do you have a link to Redshift? The only one I could find is this one that says they only do BC & MCS now?

                          '03.5 M3 SMG Coupe - Jet Black / Black

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by r4dr View Post

                            Do you have a link to Redshift? The only one I could find is this one that says they only do BC & MCS now?

                            https://store.redshiftmotorsports.co...gory-s/144.htm
                            Yea that was very recently. I have 4 friends all with different cars with Redshifts and they all swear by them lol.
                            2004 BMW ///M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon 6MT
                            2005 BMW ///M3
                            Interlagos Blue/Black 6MT Dinan S3-R

                            2008 BMW ///M3 Alpine White/Bamboo/6MT Track Build
                            2000 BMW ///M5 Royal Red/Extended Caramel 6MT
                            2004 BMW X5 Toledo Blue/Sand Beige 6MT
                            2023 Toyota Supra //A91-MT CULG/Hazelnut 6MT


                            Instagram

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Suspension Decoder View Post
                              Thanks for the thread and support, gents. However some information is inaccurate and needs correction. Importantly: my consulting rate is $250 per hour and has been for several years. The $125 he's referring to is for a 30 min consultation, which is required. Additional consulting depends upon the number of specific details we need to cover when designing your Elite suspension.

                              Also, I am returning to my earlier practices of keeping shock dyno data private. I will no longer transmit it electronically or provide printouts. If you come to FCM headquarters, I can show you your final graphs. That's more than any top chef would do! The proof is in the tasting.

                              Finally, KBO is NOT like Ohlins DFV. Ohlins DFV does no appreciate 'high speed compression' blow-off. Compare this graph and a earlier FCM Elite KBO vs. an Ohlins DFV. The compression blow-off on the Ohlins is like a digressive, vs. the ACTUALLY flatter blow-off of the KBO!




                              The 'dual flow valve' is doing NOTHING to reduce high speed slope in any way that appears beneficial, certainly not for actual 'curb absorption.' The Kerb Blow-Off technology I have developed assist in truly reducing the high speed compression force build-up and must also be combined with appropriate reduction of high-speed rebound force to minimize jacking down. This is why it's more than just the 'blow-off' on compression that you need, but also a related 'blow-off' on rebound. So it's more correct to describe this as KBO / UltraD (Ultra Digressive) or what I'm pretty much just calling 'FCM Elite Ultimate.'

                              More accurately, KBO was inspired through my studies of the Penske's regressive valve (initially used on Formula 1 cars to help soften the vertical upset to the chassis from curb strikes at very high road speeds) when designing my Kerb Blow-Off valve. I have actually developed a regressive version of the KBO which I will eventually put on Christina in combination with other technologies. I began with developing a flat blow-off (which is what KBO gives you) and then continued my research and development into a 'regressive' blow-off, like the Penske regressive valve.

                              ===

                              FCM Elite Stage 2 is still very well-optimized (it includes Ripple Reducer) and I'm careful to tune the compression and rebound forces to minimize jacking down (excessive rebound) and launching (excessive compression). An FCM Elite Stage 2 build is superior to any product on the market.

                              For those who want the best of everything, you'll want FCM Elite Stage 3 Ultimate. I can use my full arsenal of technologies and methods that help me optimize the suspension's response at a VERY wide range of road conditions - from lightly rippled roads to medium-sized rollers, to large 'bottom the suspension' kinds of bumps.

                              I've spent much of the spring and summer refining my methods beyond what I have in Youtube videos - so while the video on KBO does represent some of the behavior I aim for, there's more going on than just KBO.

                              ===

                              A key point I need to communicate is that I am unlike what you would consider an 'aftermarket suspension vendor.' I create solutions, instead of selling parts. I take your specific, unique needs into account when designing a solution instead of trying to squeeze some off-the-shelf collection of parts into your car. I look at the entire suspension as thoroughly as I can and ensure each key component is considered and changed as required. This can't be overstated! Even using terms like KBO or Ripple Reducer only tells part of the story, as EACH BUILD gets a unique implementation of these technologies! As car weights, spring rates, driver usage, tires / wheels / aero, etc. all differ, how I integrate each technology is different. This is like being taught the basics of a dance step, or a workout routine, and then making your own variations.

                              The major problem I see with a majority of aftermarket tuners is they make a PART or a KIT and then try to push YOU into their box. I first look at what YOU need, then sculpt and refine the ideas and methods into a final result. This is literally a NEW CREATION for every build!

                              Their "sell as many parts as we can" approach creates a chaotic experience, and it even sucks for race cars. Ask duracellttu what he thinks of the TC Kline he's partially removed from his car, and what he felt in driving Christina (he was one of a lucky few to get that privilege).

                              ===

                              Duracellttu is changing from single-adjustable TC Klines and these are two videos I made to show him why his driving experience in Christina was so much more supple and composed than the TC Klines:

                              E46 M3 TC Kline front dyno tests


                              E46 M3 TC Kline rear dyno tests


                              I'll look forward to adding his FCM Elite Stage 3 testimonials to this page, and to the website! Then Ian's later on
                              ===

                              If you are curious about why there are testimonials like this:



                              then you can educate yourself on some of the methods I am using. The 3 Keys of Ride Harmony (VIDEO) is fundamental. As duracell points out the importance of Flat Ride being the foundation of every FCM Elite build.

                              And most importantly, get in touch! Refer to the FatCatMotorsports.com website and words directly from me rather than any forum post for specifics on my current business practices. Each thread that particularly inspires you, I want to hear about when you contact me. As always, big thanks to Ian for creating this new forum.

                              Cheers,
                              Shaikh

                              P.S. I'm going to send duracellttu an email with additional needed corrections. As he's a cool guy and already has a set of H&Rs with me for a Stage 3 build, it's all friendly.
                              Do you rebuild GC DA shocks? I read somewhere before that FATCAT did them. I would be looking for a normal rebuild of the front shocks. Thanks.

                              Comment

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