Failed vanos test post Beisan

[sapote]

As someone about to install a 2 hole "new" disc, this concerns me a bit and the clock is ticking if I want my core charge back - I wasn't expecting a newly made part. Ugh. Thought I was doing the right thing sorting the VANOS (throws a code every week or two)... Now have $1k of parts to decide what I'm going to do...

Are these differences in the oil piston holes measurable with regular tools i.e. a quality digital caliper with 0.01mm precision?

Even if the pistons fit in the holes, I don’t trust the new disc holes finish—Raj said to use sand paper to make the holes to fit. The holes should have a perfect polish finish to last long with the moving pistons. And maybe holes have tons of clearance to pistons which causing low pressure.

[JeremyJames]

Even if the pistons fit in the holes, I don’t trust the new disc holes finish—Raj said to use sand paper to make the holes to fit. The holes should have a perfect polish finish to last long with the moving pistons. And maybe holes have tons of clearance to pistons which causing low pressure.

sapote, this is honestly amazing that organically your thoughts are the SAME exact as mine!!! He did not like this as my answer and this is why it’s been a battle to the end for me. He told me numerous times that it was my fault that I didn’t want to sand the holes to resolve the issue. “You brought this onto yourself” “You are selfish and only think about yourself” “You are an asshole” “You are a jerk” is what I was told over and over.

It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one that had this thought process because he sure as hell made it seem like I’m the only one that was against this procedure for a “fix”.

At first light, he told me this has never happened and I was the first one. Nor did he believe me. He had me second guessing myself like crazy. Half way through this battle and a second faulty disc later he told me this issue has happened before and the easy fix is to sand it and everyone that has had this issue has had success by sanding it. Once he told me this hasn’t happened and then later admitted to it happening before with the constant lies and finger pointing, I lost all faith and respect for Raj as an individual.

[heinzboehmer]

Disc thickness is not a design critical dimension, because the disc is floating axially due to the pistons are running on the big circular roller bearing.

Agreed.

maupineda do you have a bore gauge with enough precision to measure the piston bores? Would be interesting to see the difference in bore sizes between the Beisan disk and OEM one.

[eacmen]

I would highly recommend reaching out to Mike at Naturally Agitated (MisterM). I bought two rebuilt VANOS units from him with great results.

Is it more expensive? Yes

But the time and tooling to rebuild the VANOS correctly its worth the cost IMO.

He does use Beisan parts however, but he buys so much of it if there is an issue he is left dealing with Raj versus the end user.

[maupineda]

Disc thickness is not a design critical dimension, because the disc is floating axially due to the pistons are running on the big circular roller bearing.

I’d have to disagree. The disc has variable thickness, why would BMW spend additional machining time if not needed? I tend to think this is necessary to allow flow around the pump so it does not see too much axial load.

[maupineda]

sapote, this is honestly amazing that organically your thoughts are the SAME exact as mine!!! He did not like this as my answer and this is why it’s been a battle to the end for me. He told me numerous times that it was my fault that I didn’t want to sand the holes to resolve the issue. “You brought this onto yourself” “You are selfish and only think about yourself” “You are an asshole” “You are a jerk” is what I was told over and over.

It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one that had this thought process because he sure as hell made it seem like I’m the only one that was against this procedure for a “fix”.

At first light, he told me this has never happened and I was the first one. Nor did he believe me. He had me second guessing myself like crazy. Half way through this battle and a second faulty disc later he told me this issue has happened before and the easy fix is to sand it and everyone that has had this issue has had success by sanding it. Once he told me this hasn’t happened and then later admitted to it happening before with the constant lies and finger pointing, I lost all faith and respect for Raj as an individual.

Impressive if he responded that, is like file sanding a rod bearing on an S65 to resolve tight clearances

[JeremyJames]

Impressive if he responded that, is like file sanding a rod bearing on an S65 to resolve tight clearances

Yes, he 100% advised to sand the disc. And because I did not successfully sand the discs like he asked me to do, he states that I brought this onto myself and anyone else that has experienced this same issue has sanded the bore larger and everything worked perfectly, according to Raj.

[Icecream]

, is like file sanding a rod bearing on an S65 to resolve tight clearances

it's definitely not as critical as the rod bearings, I feel like it would just wear into each other and perform ok if it was a little tight. Still wouldn't be okay with it, should come properly sized (then again with as tight as it seems this fit is maybe wearing into it is not such a bad thing, I dunno).

[jareds941]

I'm curious why Beisan is the "only" option that most on here consider? My shop suggested and I went with a Dr. Vanos build when mine had chunks floating around in it.

A full season of track abuse and no issues (I've not done any of the tests as I don't have the software suite...). Dr. Vanos has you send in your oil disc, machines the new holes, and sends back with same day service. Same $150 but no core fee as you're providing your disc and getting your same disc back. Not that this helps the OP, but might be a better option for any others considering...

[r4dr]

I'm curious why Beisan is the "only" option that most on here consider? My shop suggested and I went with a Dr. Vanos build when mine had chunks floating around in it.

A full season of track abuse and no issues (I've not done any of the tests as I don't have the software suite...). Dr. Vanos has you send in your oil disc, machines the new holes, and sends back with same day service. Same $150 but no core fee as you're providing your disc and getting your same disc back. Not that this helps the OP, but might be a better option for any others considering...

Dr. Vanos uses Beisan products... he just does a chunk of the DIY legwork out.

[maupineda]

it's definitely not as critical as the rod bearings, I feel like it would just wear into each other and perform ok if it was a little tight. Still wouldn't be okay with it, should come properly sized (then again with as tight as it seems this fit is maybe wearing into it is not such a bad thing, I dunno).

It is. They are not designed to rub/slide under friction, they slide on a film of oil, just like the pistons on your cylinders.

[Icecream]

It is. They are not designed to rub/slide under friction, they slide on a film of oil, just like the pistons on your cylinders.

No metal parts are designed to rub against each other directly under normal use. I'm trying to say they don't have anywhere near the load nor responsibility the rod bearings do and may be more tolerant to being out of spec, I wouldn't compare them.

[maupineda]

No metal parts are designed to rub against each other directly under normal use. I'm trying to say they don't have anywhere near the load nor responsibility the rod bearings do and may be more tolerant to being out of spec, I wouldn't compare them.

So you would sand them hoping to achieve perfect roundness and no taper and expect the pump to deliver the specified design pressure while lasting 100k plus miles? Will sand achieve the polished surface for wear free operation?

this is a critical interface, is what builds up the pressure needed for the variable timing system to operate as intended.

[Icecream]

So you would sand them hoping to achieve perfect roundness and no taper and expect the pump to deliver the specified design pressure while lasting 100k plus miles? Will sand achieve the polished surface for wear free operation?

this is a critical interface, is what builds up the pressure needed for the variable timing system to operate as intended.

No, I wouldn't want to sand it either. I havent looked closely at this part tbh. Eh, glad I have the stock part haha.

[Cubieman]

Unfortunately my 3rd vanos test (75 miles city driving) is the worst yet. My second vanos test did improve a bit so I was optimistic, but after 50 miles between the 2nd and 3rd tests and a worse result I'm not sure what to extract from this.

As noted before, it was suggested that the fact that I used S62 diaphragms may be causing the delay, I can see that being and issue. These result may mean nothing but I just thought I would share this in hopes of finding out why it's been inconsistent.

24 hours before vanos rebuild:


6 Miles after rebuild:


26 miles after rebuild:


75 miles after rebuild: