e46 M3 suspension setup, or how to not downgrade your car with suspension mods

[Tbonem3]

No comment. Don't want to deflate the thread any further.

[Allnightlong]

Lol….

[Obioban]

What are your thoughts on air suspensions?

I try not to think about them.

[Allnightlong]

I try not to think about them.

I take it your not a fan of the floaty uncontrollable feeling you get on the apex😐

[eacmen]

Great podcast episode with Mike Kojima. Suspension guru extraordinaire. Highly recommend a listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tuned-in/id1579263731?i=1000577379915

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[oceansize]

Great podcast episode with Mike Kojima. Suspension guru extraordinaire. Highly recommend a listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tuned-in/id1579263731?i=1000577379915

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Youtube link for those on PC (or android) and don't want that fat bastard called iTunes on their PC.

[CrisSilberGrau]

Youtube link for those on PC (or android) and don't want that fat bastard called iTunes on their PC.

Pretty eye opening stuff, seems like a lot of work to really dial in this car and conversely mad easy to royally mess it up.

Obioban was there some doc whereby it stated that after the 13.5F/13R heights we then need to correct for revised suspension geometry?

Follow up question, how does the car behave under compression where it goes beneath that ride height factor? From this video, after the arms go beyond 90deg we gain positive camber and a host of other unwanted behaviours.

[IamFODI]

Pretty eye opening stuff, seems like a lot of work to really dial in this car and conversely mad easy to royally mess it up.

Absolutely. As with most mods, especially on a car that’s as good stock as the E46 M3. Wish this were more widely understood and appreciated.

[thegenius46m]

Absolutely. As with most mods, especially on a car that’s as good stock as the E46 M3. Wish this were more widely understood and appreciated.

Yup because most people don't have the chance to drive a stock e46 m3 on brand new suspension. Comparing 20 yr old worn out suspension is meaningless. Recently bought brand new oem dampers on my ZHP and did some bump stop modifications and swaybars and the car is incredible. I can blow through backroads and hit bumps at 80mph+ and the car just takes the bumps like it should and is still a lot of fun and predictable. These cars stock, M3 included, actually sit virtually on the bumpstop use it to control roll, grip, and oversteer/understeer characteristics so if you go lower on that setup without moving to a shorter bumpstop with similar characteristics (easily misunderstood by the average person) you are changing the handling dynamics negatively at an exponential rate the lower you go.

If you want to go lower, everything needs to be calculated and setup accordingly in the proper ride height ranges if you care about performance. Just going low for looks does not work. If you setup can't take bumps at 80mph without the car getting upset, your suspension is not able to properly do its job to control the chassis.

Ian is 100% right with this stuff and I have hundreds of hours testing this stuff on both my cars as well as guidance from a suspension engineer that this stuff is indeed true.

[K-Dawg]

Great podcast episode with Mike Kojima. Suspension guru extraordinaire. Highly recommend a listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000577379915


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Youtube link for those on PC (or android) and don't want that fat bastard called iTunes on their PC.

That's a good listen. I liked that a lot of the concepts they talked about are already being discussed on this forum.

[cobra]

Great podcast episode with Mike Kojima. Suspension guru extraordinaire. Highly recommend a listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tuned-in/id1579263731?i=1000577379915

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. I ended up watching some more of his content after this. Kind of a quirky guy. Some misleading information but also a lot of things I didn't know about.

[eacmen]

Interesting. I ended up watching some more of his content after this. Kind of a quirky guy. Some misleading information but also a lot of things I didn't know about.

Curious. What info did you find misleading?


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[cobra]

Curious. What info did you find misleading?


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I didn't make a list, but off the top of my head some of the shock tuning and spring rate things could lead to confusion.
-They both agreed that spring rates were a bad way to talk about spring selection due to varied motion ratios, but then proceeded to speak in terms of spring rates. Mike was not forthcoming with his perspective on ride frequency.
-The "4 clicks in, 1 click out" can cause a lot of confusion because every shock is completely different. 8 clicks on one brand might equal 1 click on another. Some adjusters do almost nothing and others have dramatic effects. More importantly, if you aren't in the ballpark to begin with you're wasting your time. I've wasted a LOT of time turning adjusters when in reality I was not even in the ballpark to begin with.

Just generalizations that people might think they can apply to their vehicle, A few more disclaimers would have helped

[usdmej]

Curious. What info did you find misleading?

have followed him since his SCC magazine days, and while he's made invaluable contributions to the scene and community, there isn't a Nitto tire or KW coilover that he hasn't fallen in love with

[r4dr]

I was surprised he mentioned KW as a quality option. Maybe it's because he deals with V3 and above, but the V2s that came on my car were crap and that's the general review I've heard of them.