The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[Cubieman]

While not an M3, here’s my beloved Touring on BAT.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...wagon-6-speed/

Very cool, half tempted to bid on that, your not that far away even. That is a dream car for me there.

[maw1124]

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3zb..._campaign=hero

I would expect this to go for strong money (even on DDM's site), but for the fact that we've now taught the world to Pavlovian ask about the "big 3" whether they completely understand and appreciate the risk or not. This is tangentially connected (if only in time proximity) to the question of modified v unmodified examples in the market.

maw

EDIT... went for $30k

[tlow98]

Very cool, half tempted to bid on that, your not that far away even. That is a dream car for me there.

Shame about Nickpiper’s car. It was wayyyyyy nicer than the most recent wagon’s for sale. I’d imagine it’s just a hard market at the first of the year and wrong people were in the room?

[George Hill]

Shame about Nickpiper’s car. It was wayyyyyy nicer than the most recent wagon’s for sale. I’d imagine it’s just a hard market at the first of the year and wrong people were in the room?

Very shocked, I think that was one if the nicest conversions offered on BaT in the recent future.

I wonder if this was a sign of the times or that it was pre-LCI?

[01SG]

That listing was under the E46 touring and not the m3. A lot of people probably missed it.

[oceansize]

Very shocked, I think that was one if the nicest conversions offered on BaT in the recent future.

I wonder if this was a sign of the times or that it was pre-LCI?

Definitely ended up very very low. A few things when I looked

1. Winter is the wrong time to list on BAT, numbers show a solid dip.
2. The car market is correcting pretty harshly at the moment which makes number 1 above worse.
3. Not a dry climate car.
4. Presentation wasn't great.
5. Past accident.
6. High mileage on the engine.

Don't get me wrong, I like the car but I think the above all hurt. The user base on BAT is largely uneducated outside "oooh shiny" and "big 3" so there is sometimes a disconnect.

[01SG]

Definitely ended up very very low. A few things when I looked

1. Winter is the wrong time to list on BAT, numbers show a solid dip.
2. The car market is correcting pretty harshly at the moment which makes number 1 above worse.
3. Not a dry climate car.
4. Presentation wasn't great.
5. Past accident.
6. High mileage on the engine.

Don't get me wrong, I like the car but I think the above all hurt. The user base on BAT is largely uneducated outside "oooh shiny" and "big 3" so there is sometimes a disconnect.

All very strong points, except number 2 is questionable. While the used car market at large is correcting, I still see strong demand for a lot of the classic enthusiast cars. I intend to keep the E46 forever, so I do not follow it very closely. But E36 M3 prices have remained very strong. I see the Lotus Esprit and first gen Viper seem to have had big gains too.

It is reasonable to expect prices to go down somewhat after how they blew up. But I do not think there will be any great drop in e46 values that many here are wary of. Maybe at the top end.

That recent 36 grand for a 90k miler seems like good money to me.

[maw1124]

The user base on BAT is largely uneducated outside "oooh shiny" and "big 3" so there is sometimes a disconnect.

Good insights.

I expect observation number 2 to get worse as interest rates increase, because I think this is almost all user bases not just BaT.

The people who actually want the car for the car (and not to flip or for investment) now have a better leg to stand on, albeit at the expense of sellers.

maw

[oceansize]

All very strong points, except number 2 is questionable. While the used car market at large is correcting, I still see strong demand for a lot of the classic enthusiast cars. I intend to keep the E46 forever, so I do not follow it very closely. But E36 M3 prices have remained very strong. I see the Lotus Esprit and first gen Viper seem to have had big gains too.

It is reasonable to expect prices to go down somewhat after how they blew up. But I do not think there will be any great drop in e46 values that many here are wary of. Maybe at the top end.

That recent 36 grand for a 90k miler seems like good money to me.

There were a lot of "average" e46 m3s selling for top dollar and I think the bulk of the correction is within this population. Excellent low mileage correctly optioned cars in the right color combo will be fine.

[George Hill]

Definitely ended up very very low. A few things when I looked

1. Winter is the wrong time to list on BAT, numbers show a solid dip.
2. The car market is correcting pretty harshly at the moment which makes number 1 above worse.
3. Not a dry climate car.
4. Presentation wasn't great.
5. Past accident.
6. High mileage on the engine.

Don't get me wrong, I like the car but I think the above all hurt. The user base on BAT is largely uneducated outside "oooh shiny" and "big 3" so there is sometimes a disconnect.

Valid notes for sure. This is still a very niche car, you can't generally just go buy one like an M3. In the last 10 months (4) cars sold for $37,500 or higher, even some market correction seems to be not the whole story considering that delta IMO.

What critique do you have on the presentation? Not arguing, just genuinely curious.

[tlow98]

Good insights.

I expect observation number 2 to get worse as interest rates increase, because I think this is almost all user bases not just BaT.

The people who actually want the car for the car (and not to flip or for investment) now have a better leg to stand on, albeit at the expense of sellers.

maw

Agree. The sellers shouldn’t be too used this high market as it’s only occurred for like 10% of the time that these cars have been sold used. But hey, I’m sure they’ll still cry :-)

I confusingly worded that.. sry

[oceansize]

Valid notes for sure. This is still a very niche car, you can't generally just go buy one like an M3. In the last 10 months (4) cars sold for $37,500 or higher, even some market correction seems to be not the whole story considering that delta IMO.

What critique do you have on the presentation? Not arguing, just genuinely curious.

Remember I said "wasn't great" so it wasn't bad either.

Look at the exterior shots for this: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...onvertible-66/

Now that was ridiculous (stupid) money for that car but the exterior shots definitely helped it's cause along with COVID.

But given the wagon's age and history I would have detailed it better including the underbody, really in particular the underbody. Then I would have replaced the headlight lens covers with fresh ones, cleaned the drivers side weather floor mats and pedals, better yet I would have never taken pictures with all weather floor mats but purchased a fresh set of fabric original floor mats. It is likely I would I would have paid a professional photographer for quality exterior photos as well. I know this all trivial stuff but remember the BAT crowd is "oooh shiney". They can be spooked easily. Now how much all the stuff I listed helps, I don't know. Market is down, its winter, the owner has a non dry climate car with a wreck. Look at ra2fanatic's car that was on BAT recently. Man we all know that car went for far too little money. People had better be careful with listing modified/conversion cars on BAT right now and if they do things need to be tip top (like ra2fanatic) to eek out whatever you can.

Personally I'm glad that the owner had a decent reserve and it didn't sell.

[maw1124]

From Haggerty today…

” German cars

As with many of the other indices covered in the Hagerty Price Guide, the German Car Indexposted no meaningful movement in the last quarter of 2022. The index had been on the rise for five consecutive publications, reaching all-time highs earlier in 2022. (NB: We update our price guide quarterly.) Many of this index’s component cars represent the upper echelons of the German collector market which, like other high-end vehicles, experienced little to no movement this publication.

Not reflected here is the continued movement of lower-priced German classics and “youngtimer” cars. While high-end cars like the 300SL Gullwing tracked steady, the more affordable R129 (1989–2001) Mercedes-Benz SL320s gained 17 percent. Likewise, the 2002tii may have not moved, but BMW Bavarias shot up by 27 percent, and Isettas by 13. [maw EDIT: I consider E46M cars here.]

With such sharp rises in collector car values since late 2020, it is probably best to keep in perspective that sharp gains often turn into fast drops. The fact that it has not occurred in the German slice of the collector-car market is promising, at least for the immediate future.”

maw

[maw1124]

THIS will be interesting... interior swap...

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3vpMp6av/2003-bmw-m3-convertible

maw

[tlow98]

THIS will be interesting... interior swap...

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3vpMp6av/2003-bmw-m3-convertible

maw

eek. Those seats wreak of fake leather and don’t fit that well.

I don’t think I’d pay mid teens for this with someone else’s money…