The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[lvm3sm46]

maw1124 the comments on that listing are pretty entertaining

[bmw]

It's hard for me to see these selling for original MSRP, actually. I just don't understand it and call that "current market" chasing. I mean, HALF of MSRP for a 15 year old car is killing it without the streets flooded with money, IMO. But the streets have been flooded with money for so long, it may just be the new reality. The BaT price tracker dot plot kinda tells a clear story though.

As a perfect-spec E30 M3 is now a 250K car (likely in the 300s now, as the 250s were a year ago) and the top of the market for Z8s is past 400K, then it stands to reason that the "current market" for pristine low mileage E46 M3s barely at or above original MSRP means they are still significantly undervalued. I suspect these will be 200K cars in the next decade.

[maw1124]

As a perfect-spec E30 M3 is now a 250K car (likely in the 300s now, as the 250s were a year ago) and the top of the market for Z8s is past 400K, then it stands to reason that the "current market" for pristine low mileage E46 M3s barely at or above original MSRP means they are still significantly undervalued. I suspect these will be 200K cars in the next decade.

That's sort of like saying because the homologation 190 EVO II is a quarter million dollar car and the Gullwing is a four million dollar car, will the other AMG cars will also wildly appreciate. Textbook speculation, except nothing in life is that simple or linear. The 500E did well -- the E55 not so much. But I won't argue if you're right.

To make this painfully clear, you can add up total production of Gullwings (1400), 190 Evo II (500), 500E (10500), E30M (17000) and Z8 (2500) and be right around the total E46M production. The point that they made twice as many E46M as E30M has been made countless times, yet people still want to compare the two. And for what?

maw

[lemoose]

To make this painfully clear, you can add up total production of Gullwings (1400), 190 Evo II (500), 500E (10500), E30M (17000) and Z8 (2500) and be right around the total E46M production. The point that they made twice as many E46M as E30M has been made countless times, yet people still want to compare the two. And for what?

once you account for 50% of the run being either verts and/or smg, the actual number of desirable spec cars is just over 20k.

but more importantly, remember from economics 101 that in addition to supply, there is demand. Consider how much broader the appeal of an e46 m3 is compared to the cars you list. Of those, none come reasonably close to the daily driveabilty of an e46. Not to mention, save for the z8, those all offer relatively ancient driving experiences.

[jet_dogg]

Lmao this dude said desirable spec 😂

Don't ever change lemoose you my boy.

[bmw]

That's sort of like saying because the homologation 190 EVO II is a quarter million dollar car and the Gullwing is a four million dollar car, will the other AMG cars will also wildly appreciate. Textbook speculation, except nothing in life is that simple or linear. The 500E did well -- the E55 not so much. But I won't argue if you're right.

Good point regarding the E55, at least how it is valued currently - but look at the various Black Series sales recently.

To make this painfully clear, you can add up total production of Gullwings (1400), 190 Evo II (500), 500E (10500), E30M (17000) and Z8 (2500) and be right around the total E46M production. The point that they made twice as many E46M as E30M has been made countless times, yet people still want to compare the two. And for what?

I think the number of E46 M3s made is irrelevant vs. the surviving examples. When you remove the high mileage cars, the wrecked, the poorly modified, the SMG conversions, etc. etc. you end up with an extremely small pool of cars that will bring peak values.

[maw1124]

Of those, none come reasonably close to the daily driveabilty of an e46. Not to mention, save for the z8, those all offer relatively ancient driving experiences.

Except for the 500E — I say this from having owned both roughly the same amount of time, and having hawked down M3 kids who thought they were going to run away from it too many times to mention. You’ll get any M3 out of my hands before we’ll even discuss a sale of that one. But they are a dozen years older. And they’re still not hitting MSRP reliably — that’s a VERY high hurdle in these terms. But I’d expect them to hit MSRP before these. I might be wrong, and I’ll be happy if I am.

Attrition is an issue with all limited production cars. You don’t have so many poorly modified, neglected and run to the ground of the other cars. At a certain point, anything still on the road and in good shape brings strong money. Case in point… https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rEQ...utm_campaign=n

Still, I wouldn’t run around thinking my E46M will be a $200k some day. Give it enough time and it might be a 2000cs, which is doing very well actually.

maw

[nahvkolaj]

EDIT... by the way, having observed this with other cars that suddenly drew the eye of "future classic" appreciation attention, this is the one CLEAR downside of these cars becoming more valuable. Less and less are people interested in the car as opposed to its monetary value. The discussions, the bidding activity, all of it starts to tilt towards money, which tends to degrade the experience. The basic transaction of a car hobby is that you value the car more than the money -- you give up the money willingly in exchange for the experience. So talking about how the car brings money is just silly. Boards like this one help to keep the ownership experience pure and properly focused, but eventually the money focus seeps in, and people start doing all sorts of silly shit. "Restoring" cars with cheap paint, half assed work and Chinese parts, shill bidding on BaT, all of it.

/rant over...my bad/

This is exactly what frustrates me about the E36/8 M hype. I genuinely like the car. It looks weird, but it’s low, it’s raw, and the S54 in that chassis must be bonkers fun. But it’s a collectible now. Might be a good thing because I think, long term, the E46 is gonna be the more comfortable car.

I saw the talk of E46 M3s going the same way so I had to jump on one. It’s hard to find a comparable coupe for what I paid for mine in August/September, and I was late to the party then!

I just want something fun to drive.

[Duck360198]

I felt like the writing was on the wall for the E46 years ago. Just seeing the direction of BMW and going the turbo route, and now the Electric route. Everyone singing the praises of the S54. Not a single person bashing the styling of the E46. Clean examples far and few between. All were valid points. For me it's my favorite BMW ever, hands down. So when I put out a wanted ad on the old M3forum, I was shocked when someone reached out selling their low-mileage stripper and acted immediately. Price was higher than anything EAG had at the time for E46's (2013) so there was a little hesitation at first. Definitely glad it's still in the garage.

I love the E46 and can't wait to see what the future holds. The ceiling is SO high for the cleanest of the clean.

[oceansize]

The re-listed PY didn’t meet reserve and the highest bid was 46k. Look at the bid pattern, it was exactly as it should be this time around.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-bmw-m3-116-2/

[maw1124]

The re-listed PY didn’t meet reserve and the highest bid was 46k. Look at the bid pattern, it was exactly as it should be this time around.

And ended right about where we predicted for the other PY inquirer, adjusted for low odometer. People think they’re holding gold but they’re just cars, and even gold isn’t appreciating like their expectations. But don’t tell anyone I said so.

maw

[Duck360198]

man, how frustrating that must be for the seller. Agree though, appears to be a fair result and no shenanigans with the bids.

[maw1124]

I mean… he can do worse than keeping the car… all this over a $9k spread? It’s a $50k car, split the difference and move the car already! Sheeez!

maw

[Duck360198]

I mean… he can do worse than keeping the car… all this over a $9k spread? It’s a $50k car, split the difference and move the car already! Sheeez!

maw

In his eyes the "market spoke" in the last auction. And obviously BaT thought so too since they allowed the reserve. I would have absolutely let the car go for that price. But, he must "know what he has."

[kermmmit7]

This was fair price in my opinion but probably he is not in rush to sell. I was surprised that they let him set reserve that high. I guess 50k.