The Official Bring A Trailer (BaT) Thread

[IamFODI]

a nice Ferrari... Like a 348

The actual experience of driving a 348 would like a word with you

[01SG]

The actual experience of driving a 348 would like a word with you

My father specialized in fixing Ferraris. He loved the 348. He has driven them all, including the F40. You drove a bad example, or maybe it just didn't vibe with you. You probably drove a bad example. They are great cars. Smaller and more usable than the v12 Testarossa. I have only been the passenger in one, but I will take his word for it.

[IamFODI]

My father specialized in fixing Ferraris. He loved the 348. He has driven them all, including the F40. You drove a bad example, or maybe it just didn't vibe with you. You probably drove a bad example. They are great cars. Smaller and more usable than the v12 Testarossa. I have only been the passenger in one, but I will take his word for it.

Ha, fair enough!

They certainly have character. The one I drove was absolutely magic between 40 and 60 MPH on a twisty road. One of the best backroad experiences I've ever had. I thought it was mediocre-to-terrible otherwise (typical pre-NSX era supercar – lots of stupid foibles), and I know I'm not the only one, but I can see how a reasonable and informed person might disagree.

[01SG]

Ha, fair enough!

They certainly have character. The one I drove was absolutely magic between 40 and 60 MPH on a twisty road. One of the best backroad experiences I've ever had. I thought it was mediocre-to-terrible otherwise (typical pre-NSX era supercar – lots of stupid foibles), and I know I'm not the only one, but I can see how a reasonable and informed person might disagree.

It's certainly a raw car, more race car than race car for the road. But it's absolutely pure. And the problem is many wealthy people(I guess you could say most people in general) are cheap. They buy a car like that, drive it into the ground, then sell it when it needs a major service.

That said, you could certainly make the argument the NSX, for example, is a superior car all around, in that it is so nice and friendly to use. My old man loves those too. The only thing customers always complained about was the sound.

But when you're in that sort of mood, when you're really focused purely on driving, the 348 is almost unmatched.

[usdmej]

when you're really focused purely on driving, the 348 is almost unmatched.

is the seating position any good? my dream for an F355 was pretty much ruined after sitting in one and realizing how goofy of a position it put you in

[IamFODI]

is the seating position any good? my dream for an F355 was pretty much ruined after sitting in one and realizing how goofy of a position it put you in

It's great – except for the pedal offset (well to the right of your body's center line), which makes it suck for long drives. Just one of many stupid foibles – some of which Ferrari fixed over the years after a great deal of negative attention.

Funny story... Luca Di Montezemolo took the helm at Ferrari when the 348 was current. He thought it was bullshit, made the engineers look at the NSX for proof that a supercar didn't have to suck in terms of quality, usability, etc., and told them to do better. The 355 was the result. Its popular reception was night-and-day better than the 348's. So, if you thought the 355 was subpar, the 348 probably isn't your jam either.

But, again, get a decent 348 on a twisty backroad, where you live between 2nd and 3rd gears, and it's magic.

IMO you really have to drive these cars to understand them. You might still come away not liking the car overall (as I did with the 348), but either way you'll discover virtues you can't really imagine by just sitting inside – and, as 01SG's father demonstrates, you might find that those virtues win out in the end.

[01SG]

The 355 is a pretty straight evolution of the 348. Somewhat like the e36 to the e46, with the major differences being ergonomics and the loss of manual steering for the 355s inferior powered setup. I couldn't stand the e46 seating position for a long time. It literally took me years to find the perfect spot, but now I love it. If your dream is the 355, it's a good dream and one you should keep. But I'd prefer the 348! For the steering and the better reliability.

The 355 does have better seats, by most accounts, but they can be swapped into the 348! It's been a long time since I've actually sat in any of these cars. My father is long since retired and doesn't get to bring them home on test drives anymore.

As for Montezemolo, the guys on the Ferrari forum argued he had political reasons for trashing the 348. It was the car that was there when he took over, so he wanted to fluff up his own accomplishments and differentiate himself. His opinion was colored by other motives besides the actual quality of the car. It's a big topic on the Ferrari forum, just check out this 11 page thread:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...r-made.257634/

And he complained about the 348s build quality, when the 355 under his direction is a more problematic car. Perhaps similar again to the e36/e46. The e46 has a nicer interior, but it has more serious engineering flaws.

To be fair, the 360 was the first new design, and it fixed many of those quality issues. I might have a 360 over a 355, but the 348, with the manual steering, is from a different era and cannot be matched in rawness by the later cars. But the 355 has looks and sound.

And to throw in another Ferrari with an undeserved bad reputation, the late model Mondial T is a great car as well. And one of the "cheapest" ways to own an F car. The early ones not so much. And the real problem is finding a good one, as with them all. I showed the old man a Mondial that was raved about on all the BaT comments, trying to persuade him to get one of those cars he worked on. The owner spoke of how he owned thirty of them and that one was the best. My father picked it apart just looking at a few receipts, going on about burned up fuse boxes and all sorts of things he saw wrong. All the commenters were totally oblivious to massive, glaring issues. It is really incredibly hard to find a good, old Ferrari. They mostly all have lots of deferred maintenance.

So I suppose it was wrong of me to say that 91,000$ M3 is Ferrari money, unless you get lucky and are extremely diligent. The purchase price is just the start. What I should have said is you can get an Aston Martin Vantage for that money, which is a better car and quite reliable for what it is.

[maw1124]

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/305Nwpdg/2005-bmw-m3-coupe?utm_source=listing_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=hero

Nice car.

maw

[simon_c]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-bmw-m3-coupe-161/

Strong price for this example. Heavily modded but very quality.

[PSUEng]

I'm noticing on many listings that "the Big 3" are all anyone seems to care about--but other parts, at least by visual inspection, or lack of mention regarding maintenance, go unnoticed or mentioned. Driveshafts, other bushings, hoses, fluids, caliper rebuilds, bearings, and so on. Just what I see, I may be off. Many other maintenance aspects to consider on these cars, as anyone who cares about will attest to.

[simon_c]

I'm noticing on many listings that "the Big 3" are all anyone seems to care about--but other parts, at least by visual inspection, or lack of mention regarding maintenance, go unnoticed or mentioned. Driveshafts, other bushings, hoses, fluids, caliper rebuilds, bearings, and so on. Just what I see, I may be off. Many other maintenance aspects to consider on these cars, as anyone who cares about will attest to.

This is true but the big 3 are always mentioned because they are considered potentially catastrophic failures that cost a lot to repair. All the other maintenance is equally important imo but easier/cheaper to repair.

[maw1124]

This will go for "write a check money", seeing as how there's no mention of a Big Three...

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KV2AJ2yL/2002-bmw-m3-convertible?utm_source=listing_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=hero

maw

[PSUEng]

This will go for "write a check money", seeing as how there's no mention of a Big Three...

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KV2..._campaign=hero

maw

My perception is, there are a lot of buyers of these cars that actually don't want to deal with the work--and they don't understand the work--of keeping these cars on the road in a certain minimum condition. I'm perfectly fine in my car, no-big 3, the way I drive it, and UOA. Now, I'm doing the VANOS at 90k for sure. But, the rest of the car is fully sorted. So I throw mine on BAT or CaB, and some internet jockey M3 expert who's never turned a wrench would shit all over it. Anyway, that vert you posted might be a really great buy for someone who can do some work, and understands these cars.

EDIT: I read the posted question to buyer, big 3. I'd like to know what the market actually values those at.

[maw1124]

Anyway, that vert you posted might be a really great buy for someone who can do some work, and understands these cars.

I've been telling anyone who will listen that E46M Verts are some of the best car deals rolling right now. Pretty soon you'll be able to buy another car for the money you'll spend on the Big 3.

Those lines are converging in some very interesting ways, but it doesn't change the fact that unless you want to look at a Black or Grey interior for the next X years, this car is a compelling option. Spend more money making it bulletproof, or not. If you're not revving the car to hell and you change your oil every 5k none of it probably matters.

At your entry point you'll have options.

maw

EDIT... I'd never heard of the Big 3 when I bought my car but the first things I did hear were (1) do NOT follow the factory service intervals, and (2) the car is allergic to aftermarket parts. I took those to heart. My flame suit stays on.

[9kracing]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-m3-coupe-161/

Strong price for this example. Heavily modded but very quality.

I frankly don't understand the market for these cars.

Why did that car go for the same price as this ZCP with half the miles?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-bmw-m3-coupe-competition-package-6-speed/