Dumb Question Thread - No Flaming Allowed

[Cubieman]

I was amazed at the amount of paint marker "debris" that I found on my M6 oil filter shortly after doing RB's. Probably not a big deal, but I will go a bit ligher on that next time. I just like to mark each bolt immediately after its torqued.

[Slideways]

I've heard the recommendation to do an oil change ~1200 miles after fresh rod bearings which sounds reasonable. Is there any merit to also doing one really soon (100-200 miles in) just to get all of the dirt/grit/assembly lube that found its way into the engine during the job out of there? Is that standard practice?

Reason for not changing the oil is that the oil filter will catch any debris and they didn't do a 1200 mile oil change after the recall.

[IamFODI]

I've heard the recommendation to do an oil change ~1200 miles after fresh rod bearings which sounds reasonable. Is there any merit to also doing one really soon (100-200 miles in) just to get all of the dirt/grit/assembly lube that found its way into the engine during the job out of there? Is that standard practice?

Any merit? Sure. I wouldn't expect it to change the game, but theoretically there should be some benefit.

I've heard of change schedules something like, first oil change after the first ~10 minutes of runtime, then again after a couple hundred miles, then again at ~1k miles, then whatever your normal change interval is. I'm sure I'm remembering the numbers wrong so don't take them as gospel, but you get the idea.

[ATB88]

I've heard the recommendation to do an oil change ~1200 miles after fresh rod bearings which sounds reasonable. Is there any merit to also doing one really soon (100-200 miles in) just to get all of the dirt/grit/assembly lube that found its way into the engine during the job out of there? Is that standard practice?

[ATB88]

Just lowering the subframe means that you don't need to drain the power steering system, which equals less mess and work.

To get a good plastigauge measurement, you need to do the full torque procedure. I'm willing to bet that the BMW techs at the dealership did not plastigauge measure clearances before installing the new bearings. It is not in the service bulletin - http://www.siwilson.com/BMW/Service_...20Bulletin.pdf

I did find this BMW service snippet which explains how to use plastigage to measure S54 rod bearing clearances during replacement. Since the torque sequence described is for the M11 bolts, I'm assuming that this is an "old" version of the service bulletin before they moved to the M10 bolts? This suggests to me that it was part of the dealership service procedure earlier on (or maybe for the first of the two service bulletins)? Whether or not they actually did it is another story.

The procedure does say to do a full torque sequence to do the plastigage measurement.

http://www.adkusters.dsmynas.com/Website%20mynas/TIS%20documents%20PDF%20aanvulling/11_24_571.pdf

If they actually do this at the dealership when replacing RBs, then that effectively halves the usable life of the M11 style bolts, which seems concerning.

If it's generally known that you don't have to fully torque to use plastigage properly... how much should I torque if I want to plastigage?

[Slideways]

Another RB question: I'm going to be doing tie rods, steering rack boots, and all the PS lines "while I'm in there"... I see that a lot of people don't completely drop the front sub frame, just lower it. It honestly seems easier to just remove it entirely if you're going to be taking tie rods off anyway? Is there any reason to avoid dropping the whole front subframe off in my case?

Just lowering the subframe means that you don't need to drain the power steering system, which equals less mess and work.

To get a good plastigauge measurement, you need to do the full torque procedure. I'm willing to bet that the BMW techs at the dealership did not plastigauge measure clearances before installing the new bearings. It is not in the service bulletin - http://www.siwilson.com/BMW/Service_...20Bulletin.pdf

[JakeM346]

Another RB question: I'm going to be doing tie rods, steering rack boots, and all the PS lines "while I'm in there"... I see that a lot of people don't completely drop the front sub frame, just lower it. It honestly seems easier to just remove it entirely if you're going to be taking tie rods off anyway? Is there any reason to avoid dropping the whole front subframe off in my case?

well if you’re changing all that anyway than it’s better to remove it. If you just lower it you can keep the tires on and don’t have to wiggle out the tie rod bolts. It’s basically a bit less work and most people do it like this because the original BMW recall specified that procedure.

[ATB88]

Another RB question: I'm going to be doing tie rods, steering rack boots, and all the PS lines "while I'm in there"... I see that a lot of people don't completely drop the front sub frame, just lower it. It honestly seems easier to just remove it entirely if you're going to be taking tie rods off anyway? Is there any reason to avoid dropping the whole front subframe off in my case?

[ATB88]

Less is more here. Try not to touch the crank journal or dry bearing surface. Keep one pair of clean gloves for bearing installation/lubrication and another pair for removing the dirty stuff - oil pickup tubes, pump, etc.

Bearings usually come in a sealed container, so they do not need to be cleaned. You can wipe down the backside of the bearing if you must and you can use brake cleaner to remove oil from the rod and cap before installing the new bearings. The surface, at least for BMW bearings, has a break-in layer that is very soft. Light surface marks are not an issue, only deep gouges. Your nail is not going to do much when engine builders use micrometers with metal tips to measure bearing clearance. Those cause insignificant marks in the bearings all the time.

When using factory bolts, clean and lightly oil the head of the bolt and threads before install.

You'll see videos of people lubricating the backside of the bearings and doing all sorts of weird stuff. Don't do that. Just follow the BMW procedure and you'll be good. M539 has a few good bearing install videos as well.

Awesome, thanks for this. I figured as much about the light surface marks in the breakin layer, just wanted to be sure.

I have an early motor, so the plan is to re-use the factory M11 bolts that are in there (assuming that I do indeed find M11s when I open it up -- I have BMW M10s on hand in case I find M10s in there, and also ARP replacements for M11s if somehow for some reason something goes wrong re-using the M11s and I need a plan B). When you say lightly oil the head and threads, I assume this is, like, get some 10W60 on my fingers, and touch the threads and underneath of the head (which will make contact with the rod when tightened)? I was actually wondering this -- if the torque spec/sequence depends on the bolt going in dry, or if it accounts for the fact that everything's so oily in there that there's going to be oil on the threads. Along the same lines, I was also wondering if I should clean out the threads in the rod with brake cleaner, but it sounds like no?

[Slideways]

A few more dumb questions leading up to my rod bearing job, mostly about what if anything hurts the new bearings while I'm installing:

-to what extent is it okay for me to touch the rod bearing surfaces with bare hands?
-I noticed that lightly dragging my fingernail across one caused visible scuff, I assume this isn't a big deal?
-Should I be wiping the new bearings down with brake cleaner before I slather them in assembly lube and put them in? or am I to trust them right out of the package?
-I've seen in some DIY videos that people will clean the crank surface that the bearings ride on. I saw one guy use a mild sandpaper? What's the best way to make sure the crankshaft surface is clean and ready for the new bearings?

Sorry if these seem like silly questions, this just feels like a job where a dumb oversight could lead to disaster.

Less is more here. Try not to touch the crank journal or dry bearing surface. Keep one pair of clean gloves for bearing installation/lubrication and another pair for removing the dirty stuff - oil pickup tubes, pump, etc.

Bearings usually come in a sealed container, so they do not need to be cleaned. You can wipe down the backside of the bearing if you must and you can use brake cleaner to remove oil from the rod and cap before installing the new bearings. The surface, at least for BMW bearings, has a break-in layer that is very soft. Light surface marks are not an issue, only deep gouges. Your nail is not going to do much when engine builders use micrometers with metal tips to measure bearing clearance. Those cause insignificant marks in the bearings all the time.

When using factory bolts, clean and lightly oil the head of the bolt and threads before install.

You'll see videos of people lubricating the backside of the bearings and doing all sorts of weird stuff. Don't do that. Just follow the BMW procedure and you'll be good. M539 has a few good bearing install videos as well.

[ATB88]

A few more dumb questions leading up to my rod bearing job, mostly about what if anything hurts the new bearings while I'm installing:

-to what extent is it okay for me to touch the rod bearing surfaces with bare hands?
-I noticed that lightly dragging my fingernail across one caused visible scuff, I assume this isn't a big deal?
-Should I be wiping the new bearings down with brake cleaner before I slather them in assembly lube and put them in? or am I to trust them right out of the package?
-I've seen in some DIY videos that people will clean the crank surface that the bearings ride on. I saw one guy use a mild sandpaper? What's the best way to make sure the crankshaft surface is clean and ready for the new bearings?

Sorry if these seem like silly questions, this just feels like a job where a dumb oversight could lead to disaster.

[ATB88]

https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3...iper/Hardware/

Thank you!!

[oceansize]

Thanks all for the thoughts!

Completely unrelated, I have a p/n request: I pulled my windshield wiper arms off the other day to install a new cowl. I found that sitting just under where the arms attach to the spindles, there seemed to be some sort of bushign and/or plastic washer that was all busted and degraded. I would like to replace before putting the wiper arms back on, but no idea how to find them?

https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3-S54_3.2L/Exterior/Wiper/Hardware/

[ATB88]

Thanks all for the thoughts!

Completely unrelated, I have a p/n request: I pulled my windshield wiper arms off the other day to install a new cowl. I found that sitting just under where the arms attach to the spindles, there seemed to be some sort of bushign and/or plastic washer that was all busted and degraded. I would like to replace before putting the wiper arms back on, but no idea how to find them?

[Slideways]

No issues getting bearings done with the 3/8ths.

The problem with torquing anything like this on one's back is sliding around on the floor. The trick is finding something to brace against and keep from sliding around during the angle torque. A loose wheel with tire laying flat on the floor is a good option.

The 3/8ths is much more useful for the home DIYer. For a mechanic doing bearings every few days, the 1/2" is the way to go.

As crazy as it sounds, the 3/8ths can do head bolts. Final 90 angle comes out to around 80 ft-lbs, but it is quite a workout. Probably best to borrow a 1/2" for this.

M10 rod bolts register around 65 ft-lbs on the final 105 angle.