Dumb Question Thread - No Flaming Allowed

[George Hill]

. Also only having to do a single 70 degree sweep hopefully makes it manageable.

Every single RB I have done so far I have used this gauge. Its not the cheapest option, but there is no reason why you couldn't use a simple angle gauge (since I saw you looking for a techangle).

https://stahlwille.com/en_de/products/detail/856162

[ATB88]

I've probably done 75+ sets of rod bearings, maybe more? The torque is 5nm, 30nm and then an angle. I use me 3/8" torque wrench to do the initial set, then 30nm. I then use a mechanical dial gauge and and a 1/2" ratchet to do the angle. *I have use the 3/8" techangle to do the angle but its not very fun. If you have the front suspension hanging and not removed you'll be dealing with a lot of obstacles and that will influence your wrench size as well.

I actually just got a 1/2" techangle and will do my first set of bearings with it in the next week or two. I will still use the 3/8 torque wrench for the 30nm though

Thanks for chiming in. My hope is that the flex head on the 1/2" techangle will allow me to work around geometric constraints. Also only having to do a single 70 degree sweep hopefully makes it manageable.

If anyone else has experiences using the 3/8" or 1/2" techangles to do RBs with suspension in and the car on jackstands, would be grateful to hear!

[George Hill]

I've probably done 75+ sets of rod bearings, maybe more? The torque is 5nm, 30nm and then an angle. I use me 3/8" torque wrench to do the initial set, then 30nm. I then use a mechanical dial gauge and and a 1/2" ratchet to do the angle. *I have use the 3/8" techangle to do the angle but its not very fun. If you have the front suspension hanging and not removed you'll be dealing with a lot of obstacles and that will influence your wrench size as well.

I actually just got a 1/2" techangle and will do my first set of bearings with it in the next week or two. I will still use the 3/8 torque wrench for the 30nm though

[ATB88]

Right, sorry for the confusion, what I am saying is i don't know if the torque for the "older" bolts is the same of not.
For what its worth I did the RB's on my E63 M6 a few months ago and needed the 1/2". The torque for those was 6nm, 20nm, 130°, very similar.

I would get an opinion from someone else but it felt like for me, someone of "average" strength the 3/8" wrench maybe could have worked but I really don't think I would have managed to do each bolt with just one pass.
It's got to be something with torquing above your head side to side not up/down where you are more firmly planned.

Ah, got it. Yeah the torque sequence on the M10 (newer) bolts seems like it would require applying more torque -- just first pass is 105 degrees rather than just a single pass of 70 degrees for the M11 bolts. But it's not clear how much more "actual" torque I'll need to be applying to get where I need to be with one vs the other. So, yeah, I see, maybe it is possible to get away with a 3/8" techangle. I don't think I want to take the chance though. I think I'll just get the 1/2" techangle and then sell it on if I really think it would be nice to have a 3/8" for general use.

Thanks for the sanity check!

[Cubieman]

Yeah I mean I guess I just don't understand if there's a way for me to know if I can "get away" with the 3/8" until I'm in there doing it, right? I think I'm kind of confused by what you were saying -- the two bolts only differ in that one's M11 and the other's M10 -- I don't know much about this stuff but is there a reason one bolt would be significantly easier/harder to torque than the other? I would have assumed they'd be about the same.

I absolutely agree that the 3/8" techangle is a *way* more useful tool to have around than the 1/2", but unless someone can tell me that it's obviously not hard to properly do the rod bearing torque sequence (on my back) with the 3/8" techangle, then I think I have to go 1/2" to cover my ass :/

Right, sorry for the confusion, what I am saying is i don't know if the torque for the "older" bolts is the same of not.
For what its worth I did the RB's on my E63 M6 a few months ago and needed the 1/2". The torque for those was 6nm, 20nm, 130°, very similar.

I would get an opinion from someone else but it felt like for me, someone of "average" strength the 3/8" wrench maybe could have worked but I really don't think I would have managed to do each bolt with just one pass.
It's got to be something with torquing above your head side to side not up/down where you are more firmly planned.

[ATB88]

I have only done the latter style bolts and forgot the specs on the other bolts. I swear I was puzzled, it felt like I was putting 100ft lbs worth of work into each bolt only to see the reading was ~50ft lbs. Must have something to do with the angle as I do wheel bolts all the time with a 3/8".

If you can get away with the 3/8" do it!
Getting the 1/2" will leave you with a less capable all around tool due to the size and the fact it won't go quite a low as the 3/8" will in regards to torque.

You might ask George Hill for his opinion.

Yeah I mean I guess I just don't understand if there's a way for me to know if I can "get away" with the 3/8" until I'm in there doing it, right? I think I'm kind of confused by what you were saying -- the two bolts only differ in that one's M11 and the other's M10 -- I don't know much about this stuff but is there a reason one bolt would be significantly easier/harder to torque than the other? I would have assumed they'd be about the same.

I absolutely agree that the 3/8" techangle is a *way* more useful tool to have around than the 1/2", but unless someone can tell me that it's obviously not hard to properly do the rod bearing torque sequence (on my back) with the 3/8" techangle, then I think I have to go 1/2" to cover my ass :/

[Cubieman]

Oh shit I was literally just about to pull the trigger on a 3/8" techangle. Really glad I read this. If leverage is the issue, what specs would make the 3/8" acceptable? I'm confused why the two different bolts would change whether or not the 3/8" has enough leverage?

I have only done the latter style bolts and forgot the specs on the other bolts. I swear I was puzzled, it felt like I was putting 100ft lbs worth of work into each bolt only to see the reading was ~50ft lbs. Must have something to do with the angle as I do wheel bolts all the time with a 3/8".

If you can get away with the 3/8" do it!
Getting the 1/2" will leave you with a less capable all around tool due to the size and the fact it won't go quite a low as the 3/8" will in regards to torque.

You might ask George Hill for his opinion.

[ATB88]

Edit: I just read you have the old bolts, check out the specs for each wrench, maybe you could use the 3/8ths, that thing is handy as hell.

The 1/2" techangle is a great option, unfortunately the 3/8" would be MUCH more useful for about anything else. I have the 3/8" techangle and plan to buy the 1/2" this winter when I do my RB's.

It's interesting that the final torque ends up about 55ft lbs (if I remember correctly that is) but yet it feels much more than that when doing the final angle.

I've done 2 M3's RB jobs on a lift and definitely wanted the extra leverage the 1/2" provides.

You might also get away with a quality breaker bar/dial or digi angle gauge but I tend to overthink and go overboard.

Oh shit I was literally just about to pull the trigger on a 3/8" techangle. Really glad I read this. If leverage is the issue, what specs would make the 3/8" acceptable? I'm confused why the two different bolts would change whether or not the 3/8" has enough leverage?

[Cubieman]

I think I'm finally getting around to rod bearings next weekend... I'm doing it on jackstands in the driveway. Anyone have a recommendation for a good high precision digital angle torque wrench to do it? I've got the old style rod bolts. I assume I want something with a flex head?

Edit: I just read you have the old bolts, check out the specs for each wrench, maybe you could use the 3/8ths, that thing is handy as hell.

The 1/2" techangle is a great option, unfortunately the 3/8" would be MUCH more useful for about anything else. I have the 3/8" techangle and plan to buy the 1/2" this winter when I do my RB's.

It's interesting that the final torque ends up about 55ft lbs (if I remember correctly that is) but yet it feels much more than that when doing the final angle.

I've done 2 M3's RB jobs on a lift and definitely wanted the extra leverage the 1/2" provides.

You might also get away with a quality breaker bar/dial or digi angle gauge but I tend to overthink and go overboard.

[ATB88]

I think I'm finally getting around to rod bearings next weekend... I'm doing it on jackstands in the driveway. Anyone have a recommendation for a good high precision digital angle torque wrench to do it? I've got the old style rod bolts. I assume I want something with a flex head?

[DJAM3]

I went ahead and installed the Rogue tranny mounts. So far so good during street driving. We'll see how it does when I do a track day next month. The difference in NVH vs the 75D mounts is night and day. The combo of 75D mounts and a steel SMF was pretty extreme. The Rogue mounts makes it sound almost stock again.

[Darbshaw]

I imagine most OEMs and engine builders would not recommend reusing an MLS head gasket after it has been installed.

In this thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineBuild...an_mls_gasket/), they are saying not to reuse it if it has heat cycled.

Did you use factory head bolts or ARP studs? I'd be inclined to leave it as-is without the gasket maker if I used stock head bolts. There is a chance it won't leak.

For ARP, I'd consider getting another gasket as you can reuse the ARP hardware.

If you really, really don't want to do the job again, get a new headgasket and hardware (if not ARP).

It is shame to toss the new gasket, but rockauto does have the factory elring gasket for ~$50.

Wow I should have kept an eye out for rock auto in the future. That's a significant price jump from FCP's pricing.

I appreciate the advice, I have ARP and ended up buying another head gasket. Then that one came damaged in shipping lol. I cannot win with this car at the moment.

One thing I did notice is that the elring head gasket has its own piece of rubber gasket on the meeting point where it calls for gasket maker. So there is probably a chance that didn't leak.

[George Hill]

Hoping I don't hate running the BW engine mounts I just installed…

Solid?

I don't put solid on anything period, well maybe a drag only car, but not anything the gets driven. The only problem (IMO) with stock is they wear out sooner than most people would like.

[fattycharged]

IMO, there is no reason to run any kind of solid/super stiff engine mount it just tears things up.

Run new to newer engine mounts, RE trans mounts and it'll be fine. In that application the engine mounts become a wear item and get changed before they are "visually" bad.

YMMV

Hoping I don't hate running the BW engine mounts I just installed…


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[George Hill]

IMO, there is no reason to run any kind of solid/super stiff engine mount it just tears things up.

Run new to newer engine mounts, RE trans mounts and it'll be fine. In that application the engine mounts become a wear item and get changed before they are "visually" bad.

YMMV