Transmission Compression Springs

[sapote]

After continuing with the clutch / flywheel job per the other thread, I discovered that it was not only the plastic pivot pin that had completely sheared, but my throwout bearing also had a really nasty crack in it. Not sure which failure led to which, but considering the clutch I pulled out at 180k miles appeared to be the factory one, it was long overdue.

Yes, I too over looked the clutch drag that is the root cause of your difficulty of shifting -- in or out gears.

I don't think the 180K miles clutch disk is the main reason leading to other failure. The worn down plastic pivot could be the main reason, as a shorter pivot prevented the shift fork to move the TOB far enough to completely release the clutch. I can't understand what caused the cracked TOB, unless it was starting to seize up (pic of the pressure plate fingers will confirm this), causing twisting stress on the TOB tube.

Casa, to find out of the clutch dragging is your issue, jack up both rear wheels:
1) tranny in neutral, turn the free moving wheels and get a feel of the viscous drag. If the clutch is total released then you should have similar drag when turning the wheels.
2) engage 1st gear, have 2nd person press down clutch pedal to stop (or the position that you normally push it to), then turn the wheels to see if it takes much more torque to turn the wheels or similar amount as above (1). If much more then clutch is dragging.

[Casa de Mesa]

Casa, to find out of the clutch dragging is your issue, jack up both rear wheels:
1) tranny in neutral, turn the free moving wheels and get a feel of the viscous drag. If the clutch is total released then you should have similar drag when turning the wheels.
2) engage 1st gear, have 2nd person press down clutch pedal to stop (or the position that you normally push it to), then turn the wheels to see if it takes much more torque to turn the wheels or similar amount as above (1). If much more then clutch is dragging.

Got it. In #1 and then #2, you mean try to turn the wheels by hand, correct?

[bigjae46]

If you can't find a gate or get it into a gate (i.e R / 1-2 / 5-6) then its a detent spring issue. That is the ONLY issue a broken detent spring will cause. is a roller on the shift rod inside the trans. The roller presses on the spring which provides some feedback as to which gate the shifter will go into. The R detent spring is the heaviest spring which is why it takes more effort to shift into reverse.

If you are losing 1-3-5 or 2-4-6 or having difficulty getting into gear, its a clutch or transmission issue.

Sounds like you have a clutch issue. Time for the tranny to come out. I'd guess 50% of the time its the throw out bearing. I now pull off the race (the part that sits against the pressure plate, degrease the bearing and repack with wheel bearing grease.

Makes life easier if you lower the front subframe. Just loosen the 4 bolts, partially unthread the bolts and lower the subframe. Makes getting to 3 of the 4 bolts that go into the block much easier.

[Casa de Mesa]

If you can't find a gate or get it into a gate (i.e R / 1-2 / 5-6) then its a detent spring issue. That is the ONLY issue a broken detent spring will cause. is a roller on the shift rod inside the trans. The roller presses on the spring which provides some feedback as to which gate the shifter will go into. The R detent spring is the heaviest spring which is why it takes more effort to shift into reverse.

If you are losing 1-3-5 or 2-4-6 or having difficulty getting into gear, its a clutch or transmission issue.

Sounds like you have a clutch issue.

Yeah, that's my fear. Below is the #14 - 16 spring (on left) which means both detent springs I've been chasing today are fine. So ruling out the easy things. I may try to rebleed the slave cylinder.

The clutch has a slightly new wobble / out of balance feeling to it when engaging from a standstill. Only time I've felt that wobble through the clutch pedal in other vehicles is when the clutch, TOB, or something else related to "stuff in the bell housing, Alex" was about to fail or has already failed.

Bummer.

[sapote]

Got it. In #1 and then #2, you mean try to turn the wheels by hand, correct?

Yes, turn the wheels by hand. I normally tell people to roll the car down a slope, but this is better by feeling by hand.

[bigjae46]

Just something to add...the detent springs aren't necessary to shift. Just makes it MUCH easier to find the correct gate. Shifters like CAE essentially have the detent springs built into the shifter assembly.

And I no longer have the # of posts of the devil...I'm superstitious.

[sapote]

Just something to add...the detent springs aren't necessary to shift. Just makes it MUCH easier to find the correct gate. Shifters like CAE essentially have the detent springs built into the shifter assembly.

And I no longer have the # of posts of the devil...I'm superstitious.

I think we’re talking different things. The detent you’re talking is on the bell housing. OP was talking about the transmission 4 shift rods detente.

[jet_dogg]

Should have closed out this thread with the final verdict on my car. The transmission spring was originally a hunch having read about SMGs snapping the spring, where the SMG exhibits a behavior similar to how I was shifting to drive around the problem (SMGs with a broken spring would significantly delay upshifts until RPMs dropped, or skip gears). In the end my spring was fine so it was not the problem, and I never found a verdict on whether this is something that happens on 6MTs with any regularity despite sharing the same Getrag box.

After continuing with the clutch / flywheel job per the other thread, I discovered that it was not only the plastic pivot pin that had completely sheared, but my throwout bearing also had a really nasty crack in it. Not sure which failure led to which, but considering the clutch I pulled out at 180k miles appeared to be the factory one, it was long overdue. The combination of broken pivot pin and TOB meant the clutch fork was out of alignment and unevenly disengaging the clutch, creating this condition at high RPMs. It's really a wonder that something like this wasn't causing any observable noises by my ear, but I suppose with the clutch in everything is under pressure / compressed and therefore wouldn't rattle. I was having the most issue getting in / out of gears 1/3/5 similar to what you describe, but as time wore on just about any attempt to shift above 3k would have the shifter fighting me or grinding if I really pushed the issue.

It seems like you're going down the same diagnostic checklist that I did before resorting to pulling the tranny. I'd say make sure all those smaller items check out, but if you don't find anything signs are probably pointing towards dropping the transmission.

Thanks for providing closure to this thread at least to your situation. My clutch is still good and has served me well but I will be refreshing all trans parts soon.

[dukeofchen]

I'll drop this here as I wasn't able to find any videos or guides during the job that showed the exact locations + sizes of the various mounting bolts for our Getrag box. When doing this on jack stands you're snaking extensions in more or less blind because of how tight the transmission tunnel is, and I lost a ton of time trying to seat the e-torx sockets onto the upper bolts, which were all gunked up with accumulated grime. Carefully lifting the engine as high as possible to let the transmission hang down (without mangling the fan) helps a lot.

To further complicate things one of my topside E14 bolts was mangled either by a previous mechanic or one of my attempts to break it free, which was a massive head scratcher as I couldn't get the socket to seat properly. I ended up risking it with a E16 socket and got lucky I didn't strip it and completely screw myself over.

[jet_dogg]

Previous moron probably used a regular socket, only way to mangle a torx bolt.

How did you use a larger etorx to get off a damaged one off? I imagine you'd use a smaller one bc of shortened lobes.

[dukeofchen]

It wasn't completely mangled, but rather had a lobe deformed in such a way that the socket couldn't slide over it (basically the outermost edge / tip of the lobe twisted to the side). The E16 was still able to catch the edges of the lobes, and held on well enough for one big heave from my breaker bar. Whether for bragging rights or out of sheer idiocy / penny pinching I did this without power tools, which are now on my Christmas list.

[bigjae46]

Previous moron probably used a regular socket, only way to mangle a torx bolt.

How did you use a larger etorx to get off a damaged one off? I imagine you'd use a smaller one bc of shortened lobes.

That’s the good thing with e-torx, go a size up if the bolt head is f’d.


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[jet_dogg]

That’s the good thing with e-torx, go a size up if the bolt head is f’d.


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Or you could try an etorx plus.

[sapote]

Got #8-11 out, super easy to do. It was barely tight for a 22mm and then easily hand spun out.

There is one more part under the spring and pin: the pin with a roller. The roller tend to break causing difficult to shift.

[sapote]

Below is the #14 - 16 spring (on left) which means both detent springs I've been chasing today are fine. So ruling out the easy things.

You need to pull out the ball and the roller pin to make sure they look good. They are the ones that riding on the shift rods, not the springs.