Strut Mount and Camber Plate Comparison

[heinzboehmer]

It’s a subtle change and I can easily see how most would not notice the difference. I think this comes down to personal tolerance and feel. I will say the NVH difference for the RTABs was more pronounced than the front upper strut mounts. No clunking, just a different tone and feel from sharper impacts, a different sort of thud.

Completely agree. Subtle differences for both that are easy to miss, especially if a bunch of other parts were changed at the same time or the car is already pretty loud. Differences really only became apparent for me after driving your car and mine back to back.

[D-O]

D-O Tbonem3 bigjae46 Ok so here is the followup email. This, clears it up, i think? 🤨


Me: About the dimensions you mention, which are you referring to? Is the strut shaft diameter the issue? Would love to hear more because I still don't understand the issue.


TCK: Yes. Shaft diameter varies on M3 struts.

Thank you sir. Makes sense when you consider TCK has this on the page for the SA fronts:

This strut fits the following vehicles:

2003-2009 BMW Z4 2.5i, 3.0i, 3.0si
1999-2005 BMW 323i, 325i, 328i, 330i, coupes, sedans, wagon, cabrio. (excl. xi AWD)

2001-2006 BMW M3 Coupe and Cabrio. (requires TC Kline camber plates on all E46 M3 because the OE shaft on the M3 is shorter and is also a larger diameter)

[bavarian3]

Thank you sir. Makes sense when you consider TCK has this on the page for the SA fronts:

This strut fits the following vehicles:

2003-2009 BMW Z4 2.5i, 3.0i, 3.0si
1999-2005 BMW 323i, 325i, 328i, 330i, coupes, sedans, wagon, cabrio. (excl. xi AWD)

2001-2006 BMW M3 Coupe and Cabrio. (requires TC Kline camber plates on all E46 M3 because the OE shaft on the M3 is shorter and is also a larger diameter)

Nice find!

So where that leaves us is simply using any camber plates but with the proper sleeve...or non-m, correct?

[D-O]

I have been leaning towards the Turner street or hybrid, but the fact that they no longer offer 14mm spacers or 60mm perches means sourcing and pressing in your own spacers (which someone has done using off the shelf spacers from McMaster-Carr - Tbone has done it as well, but I don't know where he sourced the spacers), and figuring something out for the perch. The other options I am considering are the Vorschlag "racing" camber plates, Ground Control Streets, or figuring out how to make the E36 hats work.

[George Hill]

I've installed GCs on a few cars and not everyone makes noise, but of all the cars I've installed camber plates onto its the GC ones that make noise... and primarily its popping with low speed turns. We generally don't install GCs anymore.

Right now we put:
-Vorshlag on track focused cars.
-TMS on street cars that need more camber OR planning for the future/don't want to buy stock when you can buy these at a similar price.
-Stock on "OE" cars.

[PetrolM3]

Yes! It’s the popping at low speeds. It’s now a vague memory for me but thanks for chiming in, I don’t want to be the outlier here crapping on GC units lol

[D-O]

I've installed GCs on a few cars and not everyone makes noise, but of all the cars I've installed camber plates onto its the GC ones that make noise... and primarily its popping with low speed turns. We generally don't install GCs anymore.

Right now we put:
-Vorshlag on track focused cars.
-TMS on street cars that need more camber OR planning for the future/don't want to buy stock when you can buy these at a similar price.
-Stock on "OE" cars.

I know its a loaded question, but how much harsher are the Vorshlags than the Turners?

Also - any tips on a 60mm spring perch for the Turners?

Thanks.

[bigjae46]

I know its a loaded question, but how much harsher are the Vorshlags than the Turners?

Also - any tips on a 60mm spring perch for the Turners?

Thanks.

I didn’t notice a difference in ride between the Ground control and Vorshlags on my E90. The GCs were always clunking Driven both on the street and track.

I’ve only had the Vorshlags on my E46.

[George Hill]

I know its a loaded question, but how much harsher are the Vorshlags than the Turners?

I think that's going to be hard to answer because I've never done a back to back test with the plates being the only change. I think the solid spherical bearing is likely harder on strut towers I generally prefer to have something "softer" for street cars. Whether that's a real concern or not, IDK. With that said most people making this change are going to a stiffer spring anyways vs stock and worn out. If you are hyper sensitive then maybe you will, I would imagine that most don't unless we are talking about a high speed impact and even then, maybe?

Also - any tips on a 60mm spring perch for the Turners?

Sorry, don't have an answer for you here.

[Ubaderb]

Just guessing here, but I bet it has to do with 14mm versus 16mm shaft and/or maybe the square shoulder (koni) versus tapered (bilstein).

I solved my issue (that TMS plates only work with 16mm not 14mm - my MCS are 14mm) by using some bronze bearings that were 14mm ID and 16mm od. It perfectly picked up the slack and filled out the TMS bearing 16mm ID.

If anyone has a specific question about fitment or compatability, feel free to PM me. Once I know the details, I bet I can figure it out.

Do you still have the part number and where you ordered the bearings from?

[Tbonem3]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JLPJJ1R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[D-O]

r4dr reports that 6679K18 from McMaster-Carr will work as well. I wish I had a good coilover option other than Ohlins that is compatible with the stock upper mount.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/179357-turner-street-camber-plates-14mm-shafts#post180144

[usdmej]

Yes! It’s the popping at low speeds. It’s now a vague memory for me but thanks for chiming in, I don’t want to be the outlier here crapping on GC units lol

when i had TCK camber plates with this problem a race shop diagnosed it as too much stiction in the bearing. I emailed TCK about it and they said it was a small batch problem with some of their camber plates and replaced it for me free of charge (minus shipping).

[K-Dawg]

Bringing it back from the dead. Did the Ground Control perch work with the Turner plates? I am getting ready to go TCK SA and I would like to use the Turner plates but they no longer offer the 60mm spring perches. I believe the TCK's have 14mm shafts, so that may present a problem as well.

I don't remember if I specifically tried it, but I don't see why the GC perch wouldn't work with the Turner plates. OE strut mounts, Turner and GC all use nearly identical (and probably interchangeable) thrust bearings. You could also use the GC perches with OE strut mounts.

r4dr reports that 6679K18 from McMaster-Carr will work as well. I wish I had a good coilover option other than Ohlins that is compatible with the stock upper mount.

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...fts#post180144

The same methods for adaptation used in that thread could also be used to adapt the OE strut mounts for use with TCK DA coilovers. You'll probably want to be near stock height, but I haven't done the math.

[fattycharged]

60mm spring perches
I originally purchased these with the intention of using with TCK coilovers, so I ordered them with 60mm spring perches.

Ground Control 60mm spring perch stack height (perch only): 3.2mm
Turner 60mm spring perch stack height (perch only): 6.85mm



Thrust bearings
All of these plates/mounts use stock-type axial thrust bearings for the spring perch. Turner and GC both sell aftermarket thrust bearings. I’m not sure of the COO for the Turner bearing; GC claims theirs is manufactured in Germany.

BMW (Ina) thrust bearing stack height: 11.9mm?
Turner thrust bearing stack height: 11.9mm
Ground Control thrust bearing stack height: 13mm

K-Dawg, can you confirm if the GC 60mm perch fits properly on the Turner Hybrid plate? It did not fit properly on my Turner Street plates as it bottomed out on the inner profile before seating, but the profile is different where the bushing sits on the Hybrid. TIA

*Edit* as I just read this has been asked recently, should have read all the way through.

Problem with the GC perch is the inner diameter is too small, but paying $189 for a couple of 2.5" perches from Turner is tough to swallow. I may cancel my Hybrid order and just get some Vorshlags