Dumb Question Thread - No Flaming Allowed

[Fresh1179]

Hey Guys,
So I am trying to figure out the wiring for my new radiator with SPAL fan integrated into it. The radiator I purchased came a SPAL 185 Kit along with some various components. I have some experience with wiring in this car, but I can’t find a concrete example of how to wire the SPAL wiring kit in our cars. There are plenty of examples of the Mishimoto. So, that being said, let me give a little rundown of the parts that I have, and hopefully you can tell me if there are additional parts that I need. My questions are as follows

1. Temp sensor plug has 2 wires, labeled 0 and 1. Do I need to send power to the sensor in order for it to read signal, or are there two wires, one for the fan, and one for data-logging? I wouldn’t take temps for data logging from this location anyways, but I am trying to figure out what I need to do with this connector.

2. Switched Ignition. I need to wire the orange ignition wire to a switched ignition source. Should I solder it to an existing location in the glovebox? Is there a wire that is readily accessible? Should I use a “fuse jumper” to wire it into the radio? I would prefer to permanently solder if there is an accessible location. I know of the same one for the glovebox light (accessory) and I have read about the flashlight. The s the flashlight the best way to go and how would I gain access to the flashlight wiring?

3. Diagram. Does it look appropriate?



I apologize for the pictures, I didn’t take enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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[M3_CJ]

Might be silly question, but does anyone know if volk te37's that are made for the new civic type r fit our E46 M3s? I know its the same bolt pattern but I heard something about the center bore being different? Looking to possibly picking up a set in 18x9.5 +38 offset.

[dl.m3]

Might be silly question, but does anyone know if volk te37's that are made for the new civic type r fit our E46 M3s? I know its the same bolt pattern but I heard something about the center bore being different? Looking to possibly picking up a set in 18x9.5 +38 offset.

Yes they fit. They bore them out all to 72.6. You'll probably want spacers for aesthetics or if you have BBK.

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[M3_CJ]

Yes they fit. They bore them out all to 72.6. You'll probably want spacers for aesthetics or if you have BBK.

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Great thanks. Agreed on the spacers.

[M3Bob]

Ok here goes...best way to pull stubborn poly RTABS? The tool for OEM doesn’t work with ‘em....

[heinzboehmer]

Ok here goes...best way to pull stubborn poly RTABS? The tool for OEM doesn’t work with ‘em....

Two piece design? Did you remove the metal sleeve? I've never needed much more than a mallet to knock them out. Worst case scenario just cut them out.

[M3Bob]

Two piece design? Did you remove the metal sleeve? I've never needed much more than a mallet to knock them out. Worst case scenario just cut them out.

Took some persuasion to get the metal sleeve out....in fact, it came out with the outside bushing after a lot of prying. Had to beat pretty hard on the inside bushing to get it out.....
Lesson learned: probably easier to proactively replace these things sooner rather than later, even if they're still holding up. After cleaning out the bore, the new RTABS slid right in (well lubricated w/ antiseize of course....).

Update: doing the other side turns out the rtab tool does have utility in pulling the metal sleeve out.

[M3Bob]

Resurrecting the 'to reuse reinforcement bolts or not' discussion. I'm pretty sure that was debated ad nauseum on the old forum and unfortunately isn't something that was recovered.

Just for clarity's sake (and to help anyone using a search string) I'm referring to BMW part number 31106772199 M10X35-10.9ZNS3 "Suspension Subframe Reinforcement Plate Bolt "

So...we all know the recommendation is to reuse them since they're angle torqued per the TIS. We also know that many folks do reuse them because...well, because it's a PITA to order 12 new bolts every time you drop the reinforcement plate. They're also not cheap ($3-4 each now) although in the grand scheme of things that's probably not the primary driver. What i'd like to know is what torque people are using if they are reusing them. I've seen recommended values for M10 bolts in the 40-55 ft-lb range, but the additional 90 degrees of torque angle has to bump that up quite a bit. Of course there's the argument that without the full clamping force you're compromising safety, etc. but let's face it...few of our M3s have stock suspensions anymore so whatever calculations BMW did around that are likely null and void anyway.

There's also the school of thought of using them for a limited # of cycles....i.e. replacing them every other time they're torqued down (which is what i try to do).

And let's not forget the 'plain and dry' vs. anti-seized thing:

https://www.fastenal.com/content/merch_rules/images/fcom/content-library/Torque-Tension%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

[S3diment]

Scratching my head on this one and need some support from the brain trust because I don’t know who to lean on. Car with 177k, had the RB done about 2k miles at Shop A along with the oil pan gasket. Everything was running fine, and then I got Vanos done by Person B along with the VGC. As I picked up the car, Person B said that the Oil Pan gasket was leaking badly. This was disappointing because it had been replaced recently but I’ve read reports of user error.

Took back to Shop A for triage and they definitely said it was the VGC from the rear, even showed my up under the belly pan where you can see the headgasket and it looked to be leaking from above that. The rear main seal was also dry.

Took back to Person B and they will look at it today. Suggested it could be something else too. Y’all’s thoughts?

[heinzboehmer]

Resurrecting the 'to reuse reinforcement bolts or not' discussion. I'm pretty sure that was debated ad nauseum on the old forum and unfortunately isn't something that was recovered.

Just for clarity's sake (and to help anyone using a search string) I'm referring to BMW part number 31106772199 M10X35-10.9ZNS3 "Suspension Subframe Reinforcement Plate Bolt "

So...we all know the recommendation is to reuse them since they're angle torqued per the TIS. We also know that many folks do reuse them because...well, because it's a PITA to order 12 new bolts every time you drop the reinforcement plate. They're also not cheap ($3-4 each now) although in the grand scheme of things that's probably not the primary driver. What i'd like to know is what torque people are using if they are reusing them. I've seen recommended values for M10 bolts in the 40-55 ft-lb range, but the additional 90 degrees of torque angle has to bump that up quite a bit. Of course there's the argument that without the full clamping force you're compromising safety, etc. but let's face it...few of our M3s have stock suspensions anymore so whatever calculations BMW did around that are likely null and void anyway.

There's also the school of thought of using them for a limited # of cycles....i.e. replacing them every other time they're torqued down (which is what i try to do).

And let's not forget the 'plain and dry' vs. anti-seized thing:

https://www.fastenal.com/content/merch_rules/images/fcom/content-library/Torque-Tension%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

I've reused them max like three times. Always torque them to 44 ft-lb + 90°. However, last time I bought them new I got them from FCP, so I can now just swap them out every time I take the plate off for free.

[IamFODI]

Resurrecting the 'to reuse reinforcement bolts or not' discussion. I'm pretty sure that was debated ad nauseum on the old forum and unfortunately isn't something that was recovered.

Just for clarity's sake (and to help anyone using a search string) I'm referring to BMW part number 31106772199 M10X35-10.9ZNS3 "Suspension Subframe Reinforcement Plate Bolt "

So...we all know the recommendation is to reuse them since they're angle torqued per the TIS. We also know that many folks do reuse them because...well, because it's a PITA to order 12 new bolts every time you drop the reinforcement plate. They're also not cheap ($3-4 each now) although in the grand scheme of things that's probably not the primary driver. What i'd like to know is what torque people are using if they are reusing them. I've seen recommended values for M10 bolts in the 40-55 ft-lb range, but the additional 90 degrees of torque angle has to bump that up quite a bit. Of course there's the argument that without the full clamping force you're compromising safety, etc. but let's face it...few of our M3s have stock suspensions anymore so whatever calculations BMW did around that are likely null and void anyway.

There's also the school of thought of using them for a limited # of cycles....i.e. replacing them every other time they're torqued down (which is what i try to do).

And let's not forget the 'plain and dry' vs. anti-seized thing:
https://www.fastenal.com/content/mer...ce%20Guide.pdf

My opinion is probably not worth much as I'm not an expert in any relevant field, but... I'd 100% replace, without anti-seize unless specified by BMW's instructions. Whenever I've read or heard about this from sources that seemed authoritative, there seemed to be a consistent theme that you can't trust a stretched one-time-use bolt for anything critical.

Yes, BMW's stress calcs would probably have to be redone with an aftermarket suspension, but that doesn't mean the torque spec would change, nor does it mean all torque values are equally safe.

None of this means disaster is likely with reused bolts. Evidently it's fine in most of the cases you described, or you wouldn't be posting this. TBH, I think the argument to stick with spec is more of a best-practice thing -- i.e., regardless of whether it's the best call in any given case, it'll steer you right more than it steers you wrong, and the wrong will never be bad, so you're better off keeping it as a habit.

On cost, as heinzboehmer says, FCP Euro saves the day.

[M3Bob]

Scratching my head on this one and need some support from the brain trust because I don’t know who to lean on. Car with 177k, had the RB done about 2k miles at Shop A along with the oil pan gasket. Everything was running fine, and then I got Vanos done by Person B along with the VGC. As I picked up the car, Person B said that the Oil Pan gasket was leaking badly. This was disappointing because it had been replaced recently but I’ve read reports of user error.

Took back to Shop A for triage and they definitely said it was the VGC from the rear, even showed my up under the belly pan where you can see the headgasket and it looked to be leaking from above that. The rear main seal was also dry.

Took back to Person B and they will look at it today. Suggested it could be something else too. Y’all’s thoughts?

I strongly suspect they didn't seat the valve cover gasket correctly when they did your VANOS. Sometimes it is tricky to get those little half moon things on the back to sit correctly when you're putting the cover on. might not be the world's best practice but i've used a dab of sealant on the half moons to make sure they stay lined up (since you already have an open tube from the corners on the VANOS....). Those are the only places though...don't go crazy w/ the RTV! The other places oil can leak is your CPV valve (and that's real fun to reach). I still have the screwdriver socket I used for this job...it's the only thing i ever used it for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdc7dGv-3ao

[r4dr]

Resurrecting the 'to reuse reinforcement bolts or not' discussion. I'm pretty sure that was debated ad nauseum on the old forum and unfortunately isn't something that was recovered.

Just for clarity's sake (and to help anyone using a search string) I'm referring to BMW part number 31106772199 M10X35-10.9ZNS3 "Suspension Subframe Reinforcement Plate Bolt "

So...we all know the recommendation is to reuse them since they're angle torqued per the TIS. We also know that many folks do reuse them because...well, because it's a PITA to order 12 new bolts every time you drop the reinforcement plate. They're also not cheap ($3-4 each now) although in the grand scheme of things that's probably not the primary driver. What i'd like to know is what torque people are using if they are reusing them. I've seen recommended values for M10 bolts in the 40-55 ft-lb range, but the additional 90 degrees of torque angle has to bump that up quite a bit. Of course there's the argument that without the full clamping force you're compromising safety, etc. but let's face it...few of our M3s have stock suspensions anymore so whatever calculations BMW did around that are likely null and void anyway.

I've reused them max like three times. Always torque them to 44 ft-lb + 90°. However, last time I bought them new I got them from FCP, so I can now just swap them out every time I take the plate off for free.

They're M10 bolts but they're 10.9-grade steel. From what I can find online, the general recommendation for M10, 10.9-grade bolts is around 53-55 ft-lb. If the TIS spec is to torque them to 44 ft-lb + 90*, I can still see that ending up in the safe zone right?

Also, RealOEM lists them as "M10X35-10.9ZNS3" so I don't think there's anything exotic about these. They're just 10.9-grade M10 bolts that are 35mm long and coated in what BMW calls "Corrosion Protective Coating - Zinc/lubricated silicate inorganic type". You can get these for less than a dollar just shopping around quickly online. Is there any reason to use OE bolts?

For example: https://www.belmetric.com/10x15-coar...ll-p-2381.html

[Fresh1179]

So, I am feeling dumb. In my defense, I was in a rush....DID I INSTALL MY THERMOSTAT UPSIDE DOWN? So, when running the car, and attempting to bleed the system, I had an issue with my SPAL fan turning on...so I checked everything. The oil cooler is cold, and the oil lines running to it are cold. My air condition blows tepid air, but does not get cold (could be related to non-function SPAL Fan. Did I mess up here?

Car is stationary.

[WOLFN8TR]

I don’t think it fits properly upside down IIRC. This is the correct position.