heinzboehmer's 2002 Topaz 6MT Coupe

[Theraqa]

I just read all 17 pages and i really enjoyed watching and reading progress of the build, you really are amazing man, that's lot of work done by just you, motivates me to do more stuff to mine as well, keep up the good work dude!

[heinzboehmer]

I just read all 17 pages and i really enjoyed watching and reading progress of the build, you really are amazing man, that's lot of work done by just you, motivates me to do more stuff to mine as well, keep up the good work dude!

Hey, thanks! Appreciate that

Got a quick update as well.

Brey Krause nogaro mounts arrived the other day and I mocked them up on the sliders:





Came together pretty easily, but honestly the fit and finish wasn't what I was expecting, especially considering the price. I had to pull the bolts that go up through the rails through with the nuts (guess they weren't ground down enough?), had to mess with the manual release bar springs a good amount and there were some bits missing from the kit (the spacers, but the sub strap replaces them so no big deal for me).

Also, not sure why the sub strap bar is black in pics and silver in real life. Eh, whatever, won't really be visible with the seat in place.

Anyway, overall decently happy with the mounts. They do have some issues, but they do the job.

My nogaros just landed in Indianapolis today too, so I should have them in my hands soonish. ~6 weeks wait from ordering to receiving (including having the seats made from scratch) for ~$1k discount, not mad about that at all. Still haven't figured out what to do with my stock seats though. Guess I'll just stuff them somewhere in the garage.

[heinzboehmer]

Oh and if anyone has a source for those plastic bushings between the release bar and the manual sliders please let me know. Multiple people told me they were very fragile and I still managed to crack them a bit. Shouldn't affect functionality, as I only cracked the shoulder of the bushing, but might as well replace them if they're easy to source.

[heinzboehmer]

More seat stuff:

I got my seats from driftworks during their black friday sale for $1900 shipped. Was already planning on getting seats in the near future, but this was kind of an impulsive buy because of the deal. This also meant that I didn't get much of a choice for aesthetics and ended up with the default Nogaro that Cobra makes with the white/silverish stitching. I could have ordered them with black stitching and no logo, but that added about $300 to the cost, so I decided to do my own DIY black stitching and logo delete. Onto that first.

Started with the blacking out of the stitching. I experimented with a sharpie first (since I had a bunch on hand) and while it worked well, it also stained the vinyl, so I had to be super careful to make sure I only painted the stitching. Did like three stitches with it and then headed out to a local arts supply store. Picked up a couple of these overnighted fabric markers from Japan:



I'm glad I did this because they made the dying soo much easier. The ink did not stain the vinyl at all, so I could be super sloppy (read: fast) with it and then wipe the excess off of the vinyl. I ended up doing about 15 stitches at a time and then wiping, but I did leave a test spot on the bottom of the seat drying on the vinyl for an hour or so and it still wiped up no problem.

Kindergartener-level coloring skills:



Aaand all the excess gone:



I did both seats like this and then moved on to the center section. Since this one is made out of alcantara I had to actually be careful with what I painted and what I didn't. The stitching is fairly recessed when installed, so no need to be absolutely perfect. Here's an example of a stitch where I got a bit of marker onto the alcantara. Hard to see in pictures and pretty much impossible to notice in person unless you're explicitly looking for it:



Then came the most time consuming part. I didn't trust myself to not stain the alcantara around the embroidered logo (which would have been a lot more noticeable than around the stitching), so instead I decided to fully remove it. Started by using a seam ripper to open up the top section of the cushion:



I pulled the stitching back all the way to the sides and tied it up there, top part won't be getting stitched again.

Best technique I found for removing the logo was to go and cut up all the stitches on the back side, then use a combination of fingers and the seam ripper to pull out the silver thread from the front:




This was a somewhat tedious process that involved a lot of back and forth, as I would inevitably miss a stitch on the backside that wouldn't allow me to pull out the thread from the front. But overall not a difficult thing to do. Here's a pic in the middle of removal:



And here's what it looks like with the logo fully removed (but the alcantara still loose and the foam not pressing up on it):



I decided that instead of stitching the top back up, I would sew a couple strips of velcro on and use those to close it up. I figured that I would inevitably want to go back in so I wanted to make it serviceable. Also, that top stitch was made at the factory with the cover inside out, so there really wasn't a good way to make it look good without taking the whole thing apart.

Disclaimer: I have extremely limited sewing experience and did this all by hand, so if anyone sees anything I could have done better please do point it out.

I cut the bottom velcro strip (the one on the fabric with the white backing) into three because of the curvature of the piece. I also offset it outward quite a bit (about half the width of the strip) so that the two pieces would line up in the same spot as they had when they were stitched together before:



Here's the thing closed back up:



And the final product compared to an unmodified seat:



Think it turned out pretty good for having effectively zero textile skills!

I do want to add a small bit of velcro at the very top of the cushion (already glad I went with the velcro) because it seems to "untuck" itself after you sit in the seat. I don't think it does that because of what I did, but maybe. Regardless, a bit more velcro should keep it on no problem. This is where I want it to go:



And now onto the install. First I had to figure out how to get my stock seats out because my garage is not wide enough to get them out without scratching up the entirety of my interior. I ended up pulling the car out onto the street, removing them and then pulling it back in using the safest of temporary seats:



Honestly didn't expect it to feel as sketchy as it did, but man it was pretty bad. That street has a decent slope to it and was quite busy when I did this. I waited for the light on the corner to turn red before maneuvering, but still. I did consider asking friends with wider garages to borrow their space for a bit, but I couldn't think of a good way to transport the seats, so I settled on this. I don't think I'll take this approach in the future though lol. I'll figure out a way to move the bulky stuff around and avoid all the sketchiness instead.

With the seats out of the car, I started by test fitting the seat rails:



I made two of these out of some M8x1.25 bolts with shoulders to test fit the seat. They stick out far enough to catch on the inboard bracket, which makes it so that I don't need to take the seat rails out of the car to test the seat in the different positions. Just slot it into the inboard bracket and then screw in the two outboard bolts.




They worked great, but I didn't end up moving the seat around too much. I have a pretty short torso, so anything besides the top holes on the mounts felt too low to me. Actually, even at the highest setting, I feel like the seat is at the limit of being too low, anything more and I would be looking at making thicker bottom cushions or something.

Next came the seatbelt, which was surprisingly simple. I reused the ones from my stock seats and just removed the bits from the connector that I didn't need:



Assembled everything and put it into the car. Looks awesome:



Still need to finish up a couple things like adapting the plastic trim piece that goes over the seat rails and doing the entire passenger seat, but those are just small details. No driving impressions since I drank a couple beers during the install and didn't want to go out for a test drive.

Initial stationary impressions are that they are much more supportive than the stock seats, but appear to be a bit of an ergonomic downgrade. I already mentioned the seat being at the limit of too low for me, but I can also feel my shoulders being pushed forward quite a bit. We'll have to see how much I dislike this when my hands are outstretched to grab the steering wheel, but I can see this getting tiring on longer drives. Also noticed that the seat is no longer inline with the steering wheel (seat is moved over towards the door compared to stock), which is a bit annoying. It's not crazy though so I don't think it will bother me.

Absolutely no complaints about the fixed back part of the seat though. As mentioned above, my torso is short, but my legs are long, so I already had to sit with my seat super upright to reach all the controls comfortably. I don't think the Nogaro is any more upright than my regular seating position.

All in all, I think I like the change. Need a bunch of seat time to know for sure, but it's looking good. Also really happy with the weight savings. Stock seats weighed in at 65.5 lbs each, while Nogaro + seat base + sub strap stuff weighed in at 33 lbs each.

Back seat access is laughably limited, however. This is with the seat all the way forward:



I don't know what people are doing to get a set of wheels into the back through there, but mine would definitely not fit. Seat would absolutely have to come out. And I think there's not much to do about it either, as the seat runs into the transmission tunnel before the slider runs out of travel.

[Bry5on]

You’re a patient man. I did the seam ripper thing with my old Z3 and only got through one of the logos (the back) before I gave up

[cornerbalanced]

As long as you have folding rear seats, should be a non-issue re: having to take the seat out to squeeze wheels into the rear seat?

Deleting the Cobra logo cleans things up a ton! Looks great.

[Casa de Mesa]

Wow Heinz the seat looks mega. Love the logo delete and the fact that our forum has its newest seamstress on hand. That's absolutely an awesome idea - let's see if I'm that brave (or patient!) with mine!!

[Thoglan]

Back seat access is laughably limited, however. This is with the seat all the way forward

I don't know what people are doing to get a set of wheels into the back through there, but mine would definitely not fit. Seat would absolutely have to come out. And I think there's not much to do about it either, as the seat runs into the transmission tunnel before the slider runs out of travel.

Do you have coupe or sedan sliders? Could just be the angle that makes yours look like theres only a tiny gap but heres mine all the way forward on sedan sliders:


I can pretty comfortably get in the back seat, and although I haven't tested I'm pretty sure I could squeeze a wheel through if I needed to.

[heinzboehmer]

You’re a patient man. I did the seam ripper thing with my old Z3 and only got through one of the logos (the back) before I gave up

Yeah it took me longer than expected, but I think the end result was worth it

As long as you have folding rear seats, should be a non-issue re: having to take the seat out to squeeze wheels into the rear seat?

True, not sure how I'd get the last wheel in though. Maybe I can just throw that one in the trunk.

Deleting the Cobra logo cleans things up a ton! Looks great.

Wow Heinz the seat looks mega. Love the logo delete and the fact that our forum has its newest seamstress on hand. That's absolutely an awesome idea - let's see if I'm that brave (or patient!) with mine!!

Thanks!

Do you have coupe or sedan sliders? Could just be the angle that makes yours look like theres only a tiny gap but heres mine all the way forward on sedan sliders:


I can pretty comfortably get in the back seat, and although I haven't tested I'm pretty sure I could squeeze a wheel through if I needed to.

Wow that's a massive difference. I'll take another pic in a bit (going down to install the passenger seat now), but looks like you have ~twice as much room. Mine are also sedan sliders.

Maybe PPs are narrower up front and don't run into the transmission tunnel? Since that's what's limiting the Nogaros from moving more forward.

[heinzboehmer]

Got the second one installed. Went pretty smoothly since I knew what I was doing this time.

I did learn that the transmission tunnel is asymmetrical though. The passenger seat does not run into the tunnel and instead hits the stops on the sliders when being pushed all the way forward. Makes backseat access easier, but it's still tight.

Here's a pic taken from an angle more like yours Thoglan, with both seats as far forward as they'll go. Passenger seat is visibly more forward than driver's.



Still less space than with the PPs. Maybe the Nogaros sit further back in relation to the seat rails?

Also, got a couple hours of driving in with the new seat. Very boring, sit in stop and go traffic type driving, but I think that makes my impressions more insightful, as it's the worst case scenario comfortwise. In summary, the Nogaros are definitely a downgrade for street driving and for my body type compared to stock.

Here's a list of pros and cons:

Pros:

• Much more solid than stock. No creaking or flexing when adjusting myself.
• Much lighter.
• Three point seatbelt works perfectly fine with them. I knew this would be the case, but it's still nice to confirm.
• I did not notice the off centeredness (in relation to the steering wheel) at all while driving.
• Backrest uprightness is totally fine for me.
• Feels like a racecar. I feel cocooned by the car and the lower seating position puts the shifter and steering wheel in a spot that makes me feel like I'm in an S2K.

Cons:

• Feels like a racecar. There's no button to turn off this feeling, so you're stuck with it whether you're in traffic or not. Gets old fast if you're not driving aggressively.
• These things are HOT. I was not expecting this at all, but they're not very breathable, especially in the sections wrapped in alcantara.
• Sitting in traffic means a decent amount of time with my arms down, which in turn means my shoulders get pushed forward by the seat a bit too much. Can get quite uncomfortable after a while.
• They're unfortunately past the limit of too low. I thought they weren't, but driving the car made it very apparent that they are.
  • I can't see the front of the hood, which makes placing the front of the car much harder.
  • Every car blinds me with their headlights.
  • Blind spots are HUGE (they weren't before).
  • Being so low means that I don't know what to do with my left arm. The door armrest is too high and just dangling my arm in space feels weird.

I sat and stared at the seats a bunch after the test drive and I've come to the conclusion that the seat is at a decent height in relation to the chassis. However, I sit far too low in the seat (stupid short torso). I'll drive some more tomorrow sitting on a towel or something, but I'm pretty sure most of my comfort issues can be solved by having me sit a bit higher in relation to the seat. So I think my solution to this is to build myself a booster seat. Should be pretty simple to wrap a block of foam in fabric to put between the lower seat cushion and the seat itself. Need to look into what type of foam and fabric to buy, but I'm fairly convinced that my next modification for these things is going to be that.

Also, just to be clear, these things are super supportive and feel great when driving closer to the limit. I'm sure they're going to be awesome on track, but they did turn out to be very much a compromise for me on the street.

[Bry5on]

Let’s just design you a custom bracket that mounts the seat higher. Shouldn’t be more than a hundred bucks per side after powder coating.

Also, would you mind measuring the offset of the OEM seats if you can, and compare to your mounts? The OEM e46 seats aren’t centered on the wheel either. The cluster is even slightly offset to the right of the wheel so that it’s in the center of your vision with the offset seat. To some degree this can be placed with a custom bracket, until you run into the seat belt.

[heinzboehmer]

Let’s just design you a custom bracket that mounts the seat higher. Shouldn’t be more than a hundred bucks per side after powder coating.

Also, would you mind measuring the offset of the OEM seats if you can, and compare to your mounts? The OEM e46 seats aren’t centered on the wheel either. The cluster is even slightly offset to the right of the wheel so that it’s in the center of your vision with the offset seat. To some degree this can be placed with a custom bracket, until you run into the seat belt.

I thought about doing what you did and going full custom on the brackets, but I think the problem is mostly how I fit into the seat. The feeling too low issue can be solved with custom brackets, but I'd still be uncomfortable in the seats.

Drove around sitting on a towel today and it was better, but I think I'm going to need to get that stupid expensive lumbar cushion to get to a tolerable comfort level.

Also narrowed down the comfort problem to my shoulder position. The combination of being hunched over because of no lumbar support and sitting too low in the seat makes it so that my shoulders are pushed way too far forward all the time. I'll play around some more with stuffing towels and pillows in different spots to see if that makes me fit better, but I might ultimately need to look into getting different seats. Super annoying because I did sit in a Nogaro for a decent amount of time and thought it fit me well, but I guess I really should have driven around a bit to be sure.

And yeah I can definitely measure that. Will try to do that soon. I do have a feeling that the offset is similar to the stock seats though and I just noticed it now because I was looking at everything in much greater detail with the new seats in. Steering wheel position doesn't really feel any different than it did before when driving around.

[timmo]

I'll play around some more with stuffing towels and pillows in different spots to see if that makes me fit better, but I might ultimately need to look into getting different seats.

Been a while! Sucks to hear... and it wasn't something I planned on but let me know if you want to get rid of them. I no longer do track days (might do the occasional autox) but I still have my Sparco Pro2000 because the height and feel is so much better than stock, but a PITA to ingress/egress out of. Never sat in these specifically but I'm thinking it'd retain a similar feel, but would be much easier to get in/out of

[heinzboehmer]

Been a while! Sucks to hear... and it wasn't something I planned on but let me know if you want to get rid of them. I no longer do track days (might do the occasional autox) but I still have my Sparco Pro2000 because the height and feel is so much better than stock, but a PITA to ingress/egress out of. Never sat in these specifically but I'm thinking it'd retain a similar feel, but would be much easier to get in/out of

Hey man! It has been a while. Maybe we can do an occasional autox soonish

I'm pretty set on trying to make these seats work for me, as they're the only ones I know of that meet all my requirements (three point compatibility, harness compatibility, ease of ingress/egress, lightweight, etc.). The only others that might meet all of that are Pole Position ABEs, but I'm not fully sure how comfortable they would be on the street with the three point receptacle having to come through the seat. I think it'll be pretty much impossible to find a local car with those seats installed, so I'm going to try my best with the Nogaros. I've been messing around with them a good amount and I think I have a plan to make them comfortable on the street. But I'll definitely let you know if I find that I just don't well in the Nogaros.



Speaking of, I put a bunch of towels in the car and started driving around. Sat on them, put them behind me, put them besides me, basically tried every configuration I could think of to see if any made it more comfortable for me. I've learned two things (that kinda go completely against what I initially thought was uncomfortable about the seat):

1. I'm pretty confident now that the discomfort of sitting too low is 100% in my mind.
   1. It felt very disorienting to have such a drastic change in the driving experience of a car that I've become so used to. However, the more I drive it, the more I like the "racecar" feel. I still think I'm at the limit of too low because my eyes are only about 1-2" above the steering wheel, so any lower would significantly limit my visibility. But point is, I'm liking it more and more, so I'm pretty sure I'll get used to this.
2. The discomfort is exclusive to my shoulders
   1. The length of my torso puts my shoulders right at point where the "wings" of the seat extend the furthest out. This means that my shoulders get pushed forward a LOT, which becomes uncomfortable after driving for a while. If the radius of curvature of the "wings" were a bit larger, I wouldn't have any problem.

Since the discomfort is isolated to the shoulders, I should be able to solve the issues by modifying the seat so that my shoulders can sit a bit flatter. I initially thought that if I sat further up, my shoulders would move out of the most aggressive part of the "wings", but it turns out that I have to sit too far up for this, so that idea won't work. The thing I did find that worked was to add extra padding to the back of the seat. This pushes my entire torso far forward enough so that my shoulders can extend back before hitting the seat. Here's prototype number one:



Note that the seat has the back cushions from both seats stacked one in front of the other in the pic. I was messing with different heights and widths for the top part, so that's why there are multiple towels up there. I found that to be comfortable, the extra top padding could not extend further from the limits of the Cobra back cushion. Which led me to prototype number two:



Still both back cushions stacked, but now with the frontmost one shifted up. I'll be doing a longish drive soon (that probably will involve a decent amount of sitting in traffic), so I'll set it up like this and if I don't experience any discomfort, I'll move forward with making an actual cushion.

My plan is to make an "L" shaped cushion ("L" shape is perpendicular to the plane of the back of the seat in this case) that velcroes onto the seat in place of the Cobra cushion. Then the Cobra cushion will go on top of that. The bottom part of the new cushion (the lower part of the "L" and what's represented by the towels in the above pic) will be wrapped in alcantara to match the Cobra cushion. The rest of the cushion will be made out of something that the Cobra cushion can stick to.

Making it this way as opposed to simply an extra cushion to place in the seat solves multiple problems:

1. No need to try and get good at sewing so that the cushion looks good (with decorative stitching and curves and shit), as the only visible bit will be the lower rectangular protusion.
2. No need to go hunting around for comfortable seat foam. I could stuff the thing with rocks and it would still be fine, since the outermost layer will be the Cobra cushion.

It won't be the prettiest thing in the world, but I think it will finally make the seat comfortable. Plus, everything is held together by velcro, so I'll be able to make it look normal in ~30s in case I want to show off to others how cool the seats look. Oh and I also found a fancy sewing machine that I can use, so no more wasting time sewing by hand.

[heinzboehmer]

I do want to add a small bit of velcro at the very top of the cushion (already glad I went with the velcro) because it seems to "untuck" itself after you sit in the seat. I don't think it does that because of what I did, but maybe. Regardless, a bit more velcro should keep it on no problem. This is where I want it to go:

I ended up doing this to one of the back cushions and it didn't solve the problem. Turns out the "untucking" is due to the fact that the fabric on the seat is not anchored to the seat shell and has nothing to do with how secure the cushion is against the seat fabric. I ended up removing the extra strip of velcro.

However, this won't really be an issue with the thing I'm going to be making for the back cushion, so whatever.