Turner Motorsport CSL Airbox

[ATB88]

So i had a chance to take things apart today, and to my surprise, not only are the bottom pins missing, my ICV bung had completely been dislodged. Guess my car has been sucking unfiltered air for a while. Great.

Reached out to ECS already yesterday (originally bought from ECS), waiting to hear back. I've had enough issues with these bungs from the get go, and they keep coming back... Hoping Turner/ECS can assist.

Ugh, lame. I want this to be a good product, I really do. Esp when it's coming in about $1k cheaper than a Karb box. But ugh.

[rockstar93]

I would highly suggest anybody running this flawed design to stop until it's either replaced, or reinforced with a new epoxy of some kind. The same exact thing happened to my early-build Streamline box (community reaction to the problem from them was much worse than with Turner though - go figure), and it almost cost me a motor. Separate topic I won't get into now but Antony @ Streamline has also been more than fair with resolution, and newer boxes use a new epoxy and new design with a fail safe so nothing gets completely dislodged. I expect similar from Turner.

Story was I went to the track for the first time after the airbox install after a fair amount of street use/testing. 3/4 into a session I got power loss that felt like fuel starvation and it had me stumped - hard G's and the ignition would cut (no lights or anything and I'd never experienced it before). After happening a couple laps in a row I pulled off and did a walk around and found the bung for the brake booster on the airbox was loose. Reading later this vacuum leak for the booster results in cut power for safety. I knew my day was done so just went to spectating the rest of the evening.

Stupidly though I decided a ziptie to keep the bung and hose in position and "sealed" would be enough for the drive home. And it was an uneventful drive home, no issues, no lights, no anything (I also wasn't on it hard though - thankfully). When I got home and parked the car, figured I'd pop the hood and check the situation. To my shock the hose had completely come off and bung gone. I quickly undid the outer half of the airbox and fully expected to see the bung lying loose inside. Instead I found a support rod loose inside, the other one wiggly and about to give - but no bung?

Grabbing a light and looking closer it was caught in the butterfly valve of the cylinder 4 ITB. I figure had I gone anywhere close to WOT on the way home I'd have a much bigger problem. I got lucky...so just warning everybody else don't push your luck and get this fixed. Thankfully my car is running healthy and well now.

[Icecream]

wow man, that is so incredibly lucky haha.

[Cubieman]

I would highly suggest anybody running this flawed design to stop until it's either replaced, or reinforced with a new epoxy of some kind. The same exact thing happened to my early-build Streamline box (community reaction to the problem from them was much worse than with Turner though - go figure), and it almost cost me a motor. Separate topic I won't get into now but Antony @ Streamline has also been more than fair with resolution, and newer boxes use a new epoxy and new design with a fail safe so nothing gets completely dislodged. I expect similar from Turner.

Story was I went to the track for the first time after the airbox install after a fair amount of street use/testing. 3/4 into a session I got power loss that felt like fuel starvation and it had me stumped - hard G's and the ignition would cut (no lights or anything and I'd never experienced it before). After happening a couple laps in a row I pulled off and did a walk around and found the bung for the brake booster on the airbox was loose. Reading later this vacuum leak for the booster results in cut power for safety. I knew my day was done so just went to spectating the rest of the evening.

Stupidly though I decided a ziptie to keep the bung and hose in position and "sealed" would be enough for the drive home. And it was an uneventful drive home, no issues, no lights, no anything (I also wasn't on it hard though - thankfully). When I got home and parked the car, figured I'd pop the hood and check the situation. To my shock the hose had completely come off and bung gone. I quickly undid the outer half of the airbox and fully expected to see the bung lying loose inside. Instead I found a support rod loose inside, the other one wiggly and about to give - but no bung?

Grabbing a light and looking closer it was caught in the butterfly valve of the cylinder 4 ITB. I figure had I gone anywhere close to WOT on the way home I'd have a much bigger problem. I got lucky...so just warning everybody else don't push your luck and get this fixed. Thankfully my car is running healthy and well now.

Man that would have me shitting my pants. My Karb box doesn't seal around the air filter properly and I am reluctantly going to send it back to them as they have explained that they made a design change shortly after my box was manufactured that did a better job sealing the air filter. I have found bb sized pieces of gravel trapped between the filter and the ledge it rests against twice now.
Sounds like once Turner finds the right glue they are good to go as they have already addressed the physical design changes.

[jbfrancis3]

Man that would have me shitting my pants. My Karb box doesn't seal around the air filter properly and I am reluctantly going to send it back to them as they have explained that they made a design change shortly after my box was manufactured that did a better job sealing the air filter. I have found bb sized pieces of gravel trapped between the filter and the ledge it rests against twice now.
Sounds like once Turner finds the right glue they are good to go as they have already addressed the physical design changes.

But that's not where makes the seal.

[Cubieman]

But that's not where makes the seal.

The seal is made around the perimeter of the air filter and my airbox has an area that doesn't touch the perimeter of the filter, this is the area I have found debris in.
I took photos of this and sent them to Karbonious, they said that they had made design changes to the box to correct this. Also any boxes under warranty they would lay in some carbon fiber/epoxy in the area in question to fill the void.
And these are from Karbonious, you can see where material is added:

[digger]

I would highly suggest anybody running this flawed design to stop until it's either replaced, or reinforced with a new epoxy of some kind. The same exact thing happened to my early-build Streamline box (community reaction to the problem from them was much worse than with Turner though - go figure), and it almost cost me a motor. Separate topic I won't get into now but Antony @ Streamline has also been more than fair with resolution, and newer boxes use a new epoxy and new design with a fail safe so nothing gets completely dislodged. I expect similar from Turner.

H]

so the boxes are going soft as they get hot?

[rockstar93]

so the boxes are going soft as they get hot?

No the CF and all the hardware are fine at all temps they've seen. The issue (with Turner as well) seems to be the epoxy they used to adhere the components not being sufficient at hotter temps. Streamline changed the design of the hardware for new boxes so should the epoxy give, they won't dislodge and risk what happened to me. But they also changed the epoxy itself to work at higher temps. Turner no doubt will do the same at the very least.

[digger]

No the CF and all the hardware are fine at all temps they've seen. The issue (with Turner as well) seems to be the epoxy they used to adhere the components not being sufficient at hotter temps. Streamline changed the design of the hardware for new boxes so should the epoxy give, they won't dislodge and risk what happened to me. But they also changed the epoxy itself to work at higher temps. Turner no doubt will do the same at the very least.

that's what i said no? the box (i.e. epoxy) goes soft with temperature due to choosing a resin with glass transition temp too low. This is like moulding 101. Have these guys not ever opened the hood after an engine has run and noticed its kinda warm? When i made a box almost a decade ago it was not hard to find a resin for this application though it did require post cure treatment

[rockstar93]

that's what i said no? the box (i.e. epoxy) goes soft with temperature due to choosing a resin with glass transition temp too low. This is like moulding 101. Have these guys not ever opened the hood after an engine has run and noticed its kinda warm? When i made a box almost a decade ago it was not hard to find a resin for this application though it did require post cure treatment

Ah, my misunderstanding (thought you meant box i.e., carbon 'box' itself). In that case yes you're right, and yes I agree. While I was disappointed, I wasn't 'shocked' for a mistake like that from Streamline. But to see it happen from Turner is quite surprising because they're not new at this kind of thing.

Nobody really needs to guess at underhood temperatures, so figured it was the easiest part. In any event I'm just happy it didn't turn out worse for me or my car/engine, and they've been good in resolving.

[digger]

Ah, my misunderstanding (thought you meant box i.e., carbon 'box' itself). In that case yes you're right, and yes I agree. While I was disappointed, I wasn't 'shocked' for a mistake like that from Streamline. But to see it happen from Turner is quite surprising because they're not new at this kind of thing.

Nobody really needs to guess at underhood temperatures, so figured it was the easiest part. In any event I'm just happy it didn't turn out worse for me or my car/engine, and they've been good in resolving.

Nothing like new manufacturers repeating the same mistakes as their competitors....lol.

[E46 M3]

Ugh this is very disappointing

[maw1124]

Right... I'm tempted to unsubscribe but I guess I should keep monitoring it... I was sure TMS was the way to go... maybe not.

maw

[TexaZ3]

This is very concerning. I guess at this point I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger couple of weeks ago when they were on sale. Will wait for response and resolution from Turner.

[su45]

Do we think these issues will get resolved with stronger epoxy in a subsequent version or is it more of a fundamental issue with the TMS box just being poorly-designed overall? Did the Karbonius or Evolve boxes have these issues when they were first released?

Seems like every bung, port, pin, etc is flimsy on this thing. Was going to hold out for maybe the V3 but perhaps I should just get a Karb...